3 ms·

Not sure if you are trolling of really believe this to be true, but for anyone else assuming good faith: The diffusion aspect is (of course) well-modeled, see e

Not sure if you are trolling of really believe this to be true, but for anyone else assuming good faith: The diffusion aspect is (of course) well-modeled, see e.g. references under "past greenhouse gasses" at [0]. [0]: https://www.antarcticglaciers.org/glaciers-and-climate/ice-cores/ice-core-basics/ https://www.antarcticglaciers.org/glaciers-and-climate/ice-c...

zosima 3y ago
Where is it well-modelled? Noble gasses will diffuse differently from CO2. And on-top of diffusion of course CO2 will make hydrogen bonds with water in the ice. It is well-understood that many ice cores give the same relative shape of peaks of various gasses through time. Going from there to claiming knowing the absolue concentrations without very large error bars, is just not science.
zosima 3y ago
Also, btw, this one is fun: "Carbon dioxide measurements from older ice in Greenland is less reliable, as meltwater layers have elevated carbon dioxide (CO2 is highly soluble in water)."
zosima 3y ago
This is a very interesting read: https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/journal-of-glaciology/article/co2-diffusion-in-polar-ice-observations-from-naturally-formed-co2-spikes-in-the-siple-dome-antarctica-ice-core/8C8638D9EC90AEA53B90B3DE70E594C0 https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/journal-of-glaciolog... They have found some meltwater layers with unexpectedly large quantities of CO2 > 750ppm. But they also show that there is unexpected heavy diffusion around the meltwater layers. And they argue very compellingly, that the ice core CO2 records have been smoothed through natural diffusion. Why is this information not given when showing this graph?
- MichaelZuo 3y ago
  >750 ppm CO2 is incredible, if that's true it's no wonder that interglacial maximums could have been 5 degrees warmer than present day. What's the causal explanation behind that much CO2 though? Super-volcano eruptions?
  - zosima 3y ago
    They explain in the paper. It's very likely an artifact. But from the layers around it, it becomes clear that through the years these high CO2 bubbles leak CO2 to nearby layers. And so CO2 highs are diminished in the ice core record and CO2 lows have been raised.
    - MichaelZuo 3y ago
      But in the case it's not an artifact?

zosima 3y ago

Where is it well-modelled? Noble gasses will diffuse differently from CO2. And on-top of diffusion of course CO2 will make hydrogen bonds with water in the ice. It is well-understood that many ice cores give the same relative shape of peaks of various gasses through time. Going from there to claiming knowing the absolue concentrations without very large error bars, is just not science.

zosima 3y ago

Also, btw, this one is fun: "Carbon dioxide measurements from older ice in Greenland is less reliable, as meltwater layers have elevated carbon dioxide (CO2 is highly soluble in water)."

zosima 3y ago

This is a very interesting read: https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/journal-of-glaciology/article/co2-diffusion-in-polar-ice-observations-from-naturally-formed-co2-spikes-in-the-siple-dome-antarctica-ice-core/8C8638D9EC90AEA53B90B3DE70E594C0 https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/journal-of-glaciolog... They have found some meltwater layers with unexpectedly large quantities of CO2 > 750ppm. But they also show that there is unexpected heavy diffusion around the meltwater layers. And they argue very compellingly, that the ice core CO2 records have been smoothed through natural diffusion. Why is this information not given when showing this graph?

MichaelZuo 3y ago
>750 ppm CO2 is incredible, if that's true it's no wonder that interglacial maximums could have been 5 degrees warmer than present day. What's the causal explanation behind that much CO2 though? Super-volcano eruptions?
- zosima 3y ago
  They explain in the paper. It's very likely an artifact. But from the layers around it, it becomes clear that through the years these high CO2 bubbles leak CO2 to nearby layers. And so CO2 highs are diminished in the ice core record and CO2 lows have been raised.
  - MichaelZuo 3y ago
    But in the case it's not an artifact?