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https://tinygrad.org https://tinygrad.org is trying something around this; currently working on getting AMD GPUs to get on MLPerf. Info on what they're up to /

by ukd1 3y ago

https://tinygrad.org https://tinygrad.org is trying something around this; currently working on getting AMD GPUs to get on MLPerf. Info on what they're up to / why is mostly here - https://geohot.github.io/blog/jekyll/update/2023/05/24/the-tiny-corp-raised-5M.html https://geohot.github.io/blog/jekyll/update/2023/05/24/the-t... - though there are some older interesting bits too.

blitzar 3y ago
AMD / Intel should be throwing them 10's or 100's millions (or jsut straight up human hours of work) to make that work. If / when it does it would be 10's or 100's of billions of (additional) market cap for them.
- spiderfarmer 3y ago
  So why doesn't AMD invest more in quality software? Everybody knows it's holding them back. Right now a tiny corporation has to jump through hoops to do work they could have done at any point in the last decade. Why don't they pull a great team together and just do the work, if the pay off is that big?
  - blitzar 3y ago
    I honestly do not know. Perhaps they think using GPUs for computation is a passing fad? They hate money? Their product is actually terrible and they dont want to get found out (that one might be true for intel)?
  - throwaway2990 3y ago
    They are. FSR tests side by side with DLSS most people can’t tell the difference or pick FSR. Then you tell them which is which and they turn around and say DLSS is better. People are just bias to Nvidia. They haven’t had gfx card driver issues in years now and people still say “oh I don’t want AMD cos their drivers don’t work”.
    - jjoonathan 3y ago
      This thread isn't about gaming, it's about compute.
      - throwaway2990 3y ago
        I replied to a comment about software.
    - blitzar 3y ago
      Can I run pytorch on it?
      - Symmetry 3y ago
        Yes, but you need ROCm which mostly only runs on AMD's professional cards and requires using the proprietary driver rather than the wonderfully stable open source one.
        slavik81 3y ago
        ROCm only officially supports a handful of server or workstation cards, but it works on quite a few others. I've enabled nearly all GFX9 and GFX10 GPUs as I have packaged the libraries for Debian. I haven't tested every library with every GPU, but my experience has been that they pretty much all work. I suspect that will also be true of GFX11 once we move rocm-hipamd to LLVM 16.
    - NLPaep 3y ago
      Have you tried Star Citizen? It’s why I didn’t buy AMD
      - throwaway2990 3y ago
        Based on star citizen telemetry I don’t know what you have against AMD. It seems to rank the 6800/6900 quite high.
    - 3y ago
  - Symmetry 3y ago
    In general it's pretty rare for hardware first companies to put out good software. To me it looks like there are structural reasons for this, hardware requires waterfall development which then gets imposed on software, for instance.
- paulmd 3y ago
  Intel is very much putting its money where its mouth is with SyCL/OneApi. They are spending a lot of money and advancing a lot faster than AMD, and in many ways it's a better approach (focused on CUDA-style DSL but portable across hardware) rather than just another ecosystem. (to their credit AMD is also getting serious lately, they put out a listing for like 30 ROCm developers a few weeks after geohot's meltdown, and they were in the process of doing a Windows release (previously linux-only) of ROCm with support for consumer gaming GPUs at the time as well. The message seems to have finally been received, it's a perennial topic here and elsewhere and with the obvious shower of money happening, maybe management was finally receptive to the idea that they needed to step it up.)
qumpis 3y ago
Didn't they abandon development of AMD related software?
- spiderfarmer 3y ago
  Where did you get that? They just received a shitload of GPU's and it appears AMD is actively cooperating: https://twitter.com/realGeorgeHotz/status/1686165811386597377 https://twitter.com/realGeorgeHotz/status/168616581138659737...
  - qumpis 3y ago
    I don't remember the exact tweet, but here's one discussion [1]. I guess something changed in the mean time. [1]_https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/140uct5/geohot_giving_up_on_amd_gpus_for_compute/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/140uct5/geohot_giving_...
    - jorlow 3y ago
      [1] links to https://github.com/RadeonOpenCompute/ROCm/issues/2198 https://github.com/RadeonOpenCompute/ROCm/issues/2198 which has all the context (driver bugs, vowing to stop using AMD, Lisa Su's response that they're committed to fixing this stuff, a comment that it's fixed)
  - varelse 3y ago
    George Hotz: because eventually Elon Musk's false promises and over the top shenanigans just weren't doing it for you anymore...
  - jorlow 3y ago
    He had abandoned them for about a week but then talked to the CEO and that got things back on track IIRC

by ukd1 3y ago

blitzar 3y ago

AMD / Intel should be throwing them 10's or 100's millions (or jsut straight up human hours of work) to make that work. If / when it does it would be 10's or 100's of billions of (additional) market cap for them.

spiderfarmer 3y ago
So why doesn't AMD invest more in quality software? Everybody knows it's holding them back. Right now a tiny corporation has to jump through hoops to do work they could have done at any point in the last decade. Why don't they pull a great team together and just do the work, if the pay off is that big?
- blitzar 3y ago
  I honestly do not know. Perhaps they think using GPUs for computation is a passing fad? They hate money? Their product is actually terrible and they dont want to get found out (that one might be true for intel)?
- throwaway2990 3y ago
  They are. FSR tests side by side with DLSS most people can’t tell the difference or pick FSR. Then you tell them which is which and they turn around and say DLSS is better. People are just bias to Nvidia. They haven’t had gfx card driver issues in years now and people still say “oh I don’t want AMD cos their drivers don’t work”.
  - jjoonathan 3y ago
    This thread isn't about gaming, it's about compute.
    - throwaway2990 3y ago
      I replied to a comment about software.
  - blitzar 3y ago
    Can I run pytorch on it?
    - Symmetry 3y ago
      Yes, but you need ROCm which mostly only runs on AMD's professional cards and requires using the proprietary driver rather than the wonderfully stable open source one.
      - slavik81 3y ago
        ROCm only officially supports a handful of server or workstation cards, but it works on quite a few others. I've enabled nearly all GFX9 and GFX10 GPUs as I have packaged the libraries for Debian. I haven't tested every library with every GPU, but my experience has been that they pretty much all work. I suspect that will also be true of GFX11 once we move rocm-hipamd to LLVM 16.
  - NLPaep 3y ago
    Have you tried Star Citizen? It’s why I didn’t buy AMD
    - throwaway2990 3y ago
      Based on star citizen telemetry I don’t know what you have against AMD. It seems to rank the 6800/6900 quite high.
  - 3y ago
- Symmetry 3y ago
  In general it's pretty rare for hardware first companies to put out good software. To me it looks like there are structural reasons for this, hardware requires waterfall development which then gets imposed on software, for instance.
paulmd 3y ago
Intel is very much putting its money where its mouth is with SyCL/OneApi. They are spending a lot of money and advancing a lot faster than AMD, and in many ways it's a better approach (focused on CUDA-style DSL but portable across hardware) rather than just another ecosystem. (to their credit AMD is also getting serious lately, they put out a listing for like 30 ROCm developers a few weeks after geohot's meltdown, and they were in the process of doing a Windows release (previously linux-only) of ROCm with support for consumer gaming GPUs at the time as well. The message seems to have finally been received, it's a perennial topic here and elsewhere and with the obvious shower of money happening, maybe management was finally receptive to the idea that they needed to step it up.)

qumpis 3y ago

Didn't they abandon development of AMD related software?

spiderfarmer 3y ago
Where did you get that? They just received a shitload of GPU's and it appears AMD is actively cooperating: https://twitter.com/realGeorgeHotz/status/1686165811386597377 https://twitter.com/realGeorgeHotz/status/168616581138659737...
- qumpis 3y ago
  I don't remember the exact tweet, but here's one discussion [1]. I guess something changed in the mean time. [1]_https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/140uct5/geohot_giving_up_on_amd_gpus_for_compute/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/140uct5/geohot_giving_...
  - jorlow 3y ago
    [1] links to https://github.com/RadeonOpenCompute/ROCm/issues/2198 https://github.com/RadeonOpenCompute/ROCm/issues/2198 which has all the context (driver bugs, vowing to stop using AMD, Lisa Su's response that they're committed to fixing this stuff, a comment that it's fixed)
- varelse 3y ago
  George Hotz: because eventually Elon Musk's false promises and over the top shenanigans just weren't doing it for you anymore...
- jorlow 3y ago
  He had abandoned them for about a week but then talked to the CEO and that got things back on track IIRC