5 ms·

Onyx Boox Tab X review: I wish I had this in college

7 points by teleforce 3y ago

not_your_vase 3y ago
> $880 I have been so excited about eInk note-taking tablets ever since I learned about the first generation of ReMarkable, but these prices are just ridiculous, not even Apple dares to charge that much (unless it is a monitor stand). Even the cheap ones are much more expensive than an iPad, and while I'm a fan of eInk, I must note that an iPad does everything these devices do, and much more. I wonder if it is still because of high eInk royalties, or simply because they can.
- deafpolygon 3y ago
  I agree.. at 880 it's priced above a standard iPad (and similarly to an iPad Air). This makes me unsure if it's worth getting, especially since it's based on Android and 2 versions behind, at that! I'd hate for my device to be outdated 6 months in.
  - teleforce 3y ago
    Onyx Boox X was released in January this year, I bet the newer version (X2?) will probably come before the end of this year 2023 with the latest Android version.
  - dredmorbius 3y ago
    My experience is that Onyx provide system updates about 2--4x annually, which is 2--4 more than I've seen from any other Android vendor. The device is an e-book reader more than a tablet, though yes, it can function as one. A slightly stale Android rev really shouldn't pinch your style at all.
    - not_your_vase 3y ago
      Tangential: I have a Tolino e-reader (rebranded Kobo, sold in DACH countries), which is running Android 4, and I bought it more than 5 years ago. I am still quite stunned that it still gets OTA system updates regularly, 2-3x/year, to this day. The last update came this year, early May.
      - deafpolygon 3y ago
        > it still gets OTA system updates regularly, 2-3x/year, to this day Probably just service updates to whatever services is included with the device. Not actual OS updates.
        dredmorbius 3y ago
        I can't speak for Tolino, but in the case of Onyx, updates include new kernels, Android revs, and base applications (both Onyx's and a few Android standards: simple voice recorder, simple music player, simple clock, simple gallary, etc.
- kybernetikos 3y ago
  They have cheaper similar devices. For example I use the boox note air 2 at about half the price.
- dredmorbius 3y ago
  This is a 13.3" device, the largest e-ink tablet on the market. What e-ink does that an emissive display does not is: - Has an incredible battery life, when used as an e-book reader. - Is readable under any lighting conditions. It's most readable under direct sunlight. - Is low-distraction. - Renders text and line art phenomenally. Pixels are only visible under high magnification. - Is light-weight. The larger batter and other components in an emissive tablet make for less comfortable reading. (The review covers all these points, though I listed them before reading it.) In Apple's favour: you can get an iPad with up to 2 TB of onboard storage. That's about a million books, or 16,000 hours of podcast audio. Even with scanned images, say 100 MB per book, that's about 10k books worth of storage. You can find similar features but smaller displays at lower prices. Going from Onyx's current product page: - 6": $140 -- $200 (Poke 4/5, Volta 3/4, Darwin 9, Livingstone 2, Da Vinci) - 7": $220 -- $250 (Page, Galileo) - 7.8": $280 -- $340 (Edison, Kon-Tiki, Nova Air) - 7.8" Colour: $430 -- $450 (Tab Mini C, Nova Air C) - 10.3" $450 (Note 4, Note Air 2 Plus) - 13.3" $880 (Tab X) Check the specifications for each device as some features are only offered on specific models, and systems specs (memory, CPU, storage) can vary. If you're interested in handwriting, look for "inductive + capacitive" on the screen specifications. I have an earlier 13.3" device, the Max Lumi. Price was similar. My main complaint is that storage was short-changed at 96 GB. With apps, books, and podcasts, that actually fills fairly quickly. I'm finding that app store downloads, Pocket's article archive, and podcast episodes are usually my space hogs, though documents add up as well at 1--50 MB a pop.[1] I did not think I'd be using the handwritten note-taking feature much. I actually am, and love it. Response lag is largely unnoticeable, registration is good for note-taking, though the multiple screen layers might give some parallax for art. If you're reading technical works, I'd recommend an 7.8" or 10.3" device minimum. The default bookreader (Neoreader) is good, and has zoom-and-pan modes for reading large-page and/or small-type documents. I almost never have to use that, though it works well. Other Android e-book reader apps can be installed: Kobo Reader, Kindle, FBReader, PocketBook, Moon Reader, etc., from Onyx's App store, Google Play, F-Droid, Aurora Store, APK Mirror, etc.) The devices are Android tablets, so the Android ecosystem is available to you. Google Play Store is not activated by default, and I've avoided it using instead F-Droid (mostly) and the Aurora Store interface to Google Play (for a small set of apps). For the most part I'm avoiding distractions and have no authenticated services other than Mozilla Pocket.[2] APK Mirror is another option for installing specific versions of apps.[3] I strongly recommend installing Einkbro, an e-ink optimised browser: (https://github.com/plateaukao/einkbro https://github.com/plateaukao/einkbro) And of course, Termux, a Linux userland based on apt, with over 2,500 packages: (https://termux.dev/en/ https://termux.dev/en/) Both via F-Droid. Skip Onyx's keyboard (it's crap and failed after a couple of months). A Logitech or similar Bluetooth keyboard does come in quite handy though. I do wish there were something that fit better and was a bit more portable, but one makes do. Do get the corresponding case/cover for your device. Yes, it's spendy, but it fits perfectly and offers good protection. Onyx's pencil is decent, though I also had (and subsequently broke) a Staedtler pencil. I plan on replacing that eventually. ________________________________ Notes; 1. ePubs and generated PDFs tend to be at or under 1 MB, scanned or complex documents can run to 50 -- 100+ MB, particularly if you're downloading scanned-in 19th century texts from the Internet Archive. A copy of Lyell's Geology is the largest I've run across to date at ~300 MB. 2. I have a long and mostly unhappy relationship with that app, documented in part in prior HN comments and posts, if you're interested. The essential problem is that it gets worse the more you use it. 3. As I've ended up doing with Pocket as the last usable version dates from February of this year (8.1.1.0, 17 February 2023, FWIW).
dredmorbius 3y ago
I've had what I believe is an earlier rev of this model, or at least Onyx's ebook reader based on the 13.3" Mobius display, the Onyx Max Lumi. It is indeed an excellent e-book reader and note-taking device, with strong benefits over what I call emissive (OLED) tablets. I've written about it a few times in HN comments: - June 2021: 3 month review: <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27521248 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27521248> - September 2021: Benefits of a large-format e-ink handheld display for reading, and why the main problem with PDFs is actually computer displays generally: <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28612615 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28612615> - October 2021: On battery life: <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28745230 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28745230> TL;DR: "the battery life published by Onxy is best considered "value never to be exceeded". The weeks-long battery longevity is based on about an hour of daily use, presumably with frontlight and radios disabled and minimal page-turning." That said, yes, as an e-book reader the battery life is excellent. Web browsing, by comparison, sucks battery at about 10x the rate. - November 2021: On display modes and trade-offs of display quality vs. speed. <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29260403 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29260403> - November 2021: On e-ink vs. emissive tablets generally: <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29303195 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29303195> - December 2021: On how an e-book reader fits into my research / reading practices: <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29609479 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29609479> - July 2022: Onyx BOOX vs. Remarkable (and why I'm glad I went with Onyx). <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32113312 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32113312> - March 2023: Review at two years and counting. <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35280532 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35280532> For more on what e-ink delivers vs. tablets generally, see "The Case Against Tablets" (and specifically the long comment with the big table): <https://diaspora.glasswings.com/posts/880e5c403edb013918e1002590d8e506 https://diaspora.glasswings.com/posts/880e5c403edb013918e100...> Comment: <https://diaspora.glasswings.com/posts/880e5c403edb013918e1002590d8e506#956cc690403301391d35002590d8e506 https://diaspora.glasswings.com/posts/880e5c403edb013918e100...> TL;DR: conventional tablets are a compromise solution at best, and for Real Computing, you're far better off with a laptop or notebook, with a fixed keyboard and a Real Operating System. I also favour dedicated audio and image/video capture (i.e., an audio recorder and a camera). I'm aware that both are rapidly becoming niche tools, but the truth is that you can work with a 10--20 year old version of either, whilst few tablets or smartphones will last 3--5 years. And then there's the security issues. By contrast, an e-ink tablet really is a phenomenal reading device, that transcends any other option. With entry-model devices coming in at $100--$200, they're well worth considering. (And yes, the Tab X & Max Lumi are premium devices, you can find far less expensive options with smaller and/or older devices, see: <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36953360 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36953360>, and that price list comes from <https://onyxboox.com/product/compare https://onyxboox.com/product/compare>.) And finally, related topic, E-Ink Design Principles for Web and Applications: - Persistence is free - Paints are expensive - Refreshes are slow - Colours are very limited or nonexistent - Line art displays beautifully. Raster images not so much - Pagination navigation is strongly preferred to scroll - Graphics are reflective rather than emissive - Touch / Wacom may exist - Feature detection capabilities are limited <https://diaspora.glasswings.com/posts/638a8d10e041013afba8448a5b29e257 https://diaspora.glasswings.com/posts/638a8d10e041013afba844...>

7 points by teleforce 3y ago

> $880 I have been so excited about eInk note-taking tablets ever since I learned about the first generation of ReMarkable, but these prices are just ridiculous, not even Apple dares to charge that much (unless it is a monitor stand). Even the cheap ones are much more expensive than an iPad, and while I'm a fan of eInk, I must note that an iPad does everything these devices do, and much more. I wonder if it is still because of high eInk royalties, or simply because they can.

deafpolygon 3y ago
I agree.. at 880 it's priced above a standard iPad (and similarly to an iPad Air). This makes me unsure if it's worth getting, especially since it's based on Android and 2 versions behind, at that! I'd hate for my device to be outdated 6 months in.
- teleforce 3y ago
  Onyx Boox X was released in January this year, I bet the newer version (X2?) will probably come before the end of this year 2023 with the latest Android version.
- dredmorbius 3y ago
  My experience is that Onyx provide system updates about 2--4x annually, which is 2--4 more than I've seen from any other Android vendor. The device is an e-book reader more than a tablet, though yes, it can function as one. A slightly stale Android rev really shouldn't pinch your style at all.
  - not_your_vase 3y ago
    Tangential: I have a Tolino e-reader (rebranded Kobo, sold in DACH countries), which is running Android 4, and I bought it more than 5 years ago. I am still quite stunned that it still gets OTA system updates regularly, 2-3x/year, to this day. The last update came this year, early May.
    - deafpolygon 3y ago
      > it still gets OTA system updates regularly, 2-3x/year, to this day Probably just service updates to whatever services is included with the device. Not actual OS updates.
      - dredmorbius 3y ago
        I can't speak for Tolino, but in the case of Onyx, updates include new kernels, Android revs, and base applications (both Onyx's and a few Android standards: simple voice recorder, simple music player, simple clock, simple gallary, etc.
kybernetikos 3y ago
They have cheaper similar devices. For example I use the boox note air 2 at about half the price.
dredmorbius 3y ago
This is a 13.3" device, the largest e-ink tablet on the market. What e-ink does that an emissive display does not is: - Has an incredible battery life, when used as an e-book reader. - Is readable under any lighting conditions. It's most readable under direct sunlight. - Is low-distraction. - Renders text and line art phenomenally. Pixels are only visible under high magnification. - Is light-weight. The larger batter and other components in an emissive tablet make for less comfortable reading. (The review covers all these points, though I listed them before reading it.) In Apple's favour: you can get an iPad with up to 2 TB of onboard storage. That's about a million books, or 16,000 hours of podcast audio. Even with scanned images, say 100 MB per book, that's about 10k books worth of storage. You can find similar features but smaller displays at lower prices. Going from Onyx's current product page: - 6": $140 -- $200 (Poke 4/5, Volta 3/4, Darwin 9, Livingstone 2, Da Vinci) - 7": $220 -- $250 (Page, Galileo) - 7.8": $280 -- $340 (Edison, Kon-Tiki, Nova Air) - 7.8" Colour: $430 -- $450 (Tab Mini C, Nova Air C) - 10.3" $450 (Note 4, Note Air 2 Plus) - 13.3" $880 (Tab X) Check the specifications for each device as some features are only offered on specific models, and systems specs (memory, CPU, storage) can vary. If you're interested in handwriting, look for "inductive + capacitive" on the screen specifications. I have an earlier 13.3" device, the Max Lumi. Price was similar. My main complaint is that storage was short-changed at 96 GB. With apps, books, and podcasts, that actually fills fairly quickly. I'm finding that app store downloads, Pocket's article archive, and podcast episodes are usually my space hogs, though documents add up as well at 1--50 MB a pop.[1] I did not think I'd be using the handwritten note-taking feature much. I actually am, and love it. Response lag is largely unnoticeable, registration is good for note-taking, though the multiple screen layers might give some parallax for art. If you're reading technical works, I'd recommend an 7.8" or 10.3" device minimum. The default bookreader (Neoreader) is good, and has zoom-and-pan modes for reading large-page and/or small-type documents. I almost never have to use that, though it works well. Other Android e-book reader apps can be installed: Kobo Reader, Kindle, FBReader, PocketBook, Moon Reader, etc., from Onyx's App store, Google Play, F-Droid, Aurora Store, APK Mirror, etc.) The devices are Android tablets, so the Android ecosystem is available to you. Google Play Store is not activated by default, and I've avoided it using instead F-Droid (mostly) and the Aurora Store interface to Google Play (for a small set of apps). For the most part I'm avoiding distractions and have no authenticated services other than Mozilla Pocket.[2] APK Mirror is another option for installing specific versions of apps.[3] I strongly recommend installing Einkbro, an e-ink optimised browser: (https://github.com/plateaukao/einkbro https://github.com/plateaukao/einkbro) And of course, Termux, a Linux userland based on apt, with over 2,500 packages: (https://termux.dev/en/ https://termux.dev/en/) Both via F-Droid. Skip Onyx's keyboard (it's crap and failed after a couple of months). A Logitech or similar Bluetooth keyboard does come in quite handy though. I do wish there were something that fit better and was a bit more portable, but one makes do. Do get the corresponding case/cover for your device. Yes, it's spendy, but it fits perfectly and offers good protection. Onyx's pencil is decent, though I also had (and subsequently broke) a Staedtler pencil. I plan on replacing that eventually. ________________________________ Notes; 1. ePubs and generated PDFs tend to be at or under 1 MB, scanned or complex documents can run to 50 -- 100+ MB, particularly if you're downloading scanned-in 19th century texts from the Internet Archive. A copy of Lyell's Geology is the largest I've run across to date at ~300 MB. 2. I have a long and mostly unhappy relationship with that app, documented in part in prior HN comments and posts, if you're interested. The essential problem is that it gets worse the more you use it. 3. As I've ended up doing with Pocket as the last usable version dates from February of this year (8.1.1.0, 17 February 2023, FWIW).

dredmorbius 3y ago

I've had what I believe is an earlier rev of this model, or at least Onyx's ebook reader based on the 13.3" Mobius display, the Onyx Max Lumi. It is indeed an excellent e-book reader and note-taking device, with strong benefits over what I call emissive (OLED) tablets. I've written about it a few times in HN comments: - June 2021: 3 month review: <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27521248 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27521248> - September 2021: Benefits of a large-format e-ink handheld display for reading, and why the main problem with PDFs is actually computer displays generally: <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28612615 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28612615> - October 2021: On battery life: <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28745230 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28745230> TL;DR: "the battery life published by Onxy is best considered "value never to be exceeded". The weeks-long battery longevity is based on about an hour of daily use, presumably with frontlight and radios disabled and minimal page-turning." That said, yes, as an e-book reader the battery life is excellent. Web browsing, by comparison, sucks battery at about 10x the rate. - November 2021: On display modes and trade-offs of display quality vs. speed. <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29260403 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29260403> - November 2021: On e-ink vs. emissive tablets generally: <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29303195 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29303195> - December 2021: On how an e-book reader fits into my research / reading practices: <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29609479 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29609479> - July 2022: Onyx BOOX vs. Remarkable (and why I'm glad I went with Onyx). <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32113312 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32113312> - March 2023: Review at two years and counting. <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35280532 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35280532> For more on what e-ink delivers vs. tablets generally, see "The Case Against Tablets" (and specifically the long comment with the big table): <https://diaspora.glasswings.com/posts/880e5c403edb013918e1002590d8e506 https://diaspora.glasswings.com/posts/880e5c403edb013918e100...> Comment: <https://diaspora.glasswings.com/posts/880e5c403edb013918e1002590d8e506#956cc690403301391d35002590d8e506 https://diaspora.glasswings.com/posts/880e5c403edb013918e100...> TL;DR: conventional tablets are a compromise solution at best, and for Real Computing, you're far better off with a laptop or notebook, with a fixed keyboard and a Real Operating System. I also favour dedicated audio and image/video capture (i.e., an audio recorder and a camera). I'm aware that both are rapidly becoming niche tools, but the truth is that you can work with a 10--20 year old version of either, whilst few tablets or smartphones will last 3--5 years. And then there's the security issues. By contrast, an e-ink tablet really is a phenomenal reading device, that transcends any other option. With entry-model devices coming in at $100--$200, they're well worth considering. (And yes, the Tab X & Max Lumi are premium devices, you can find far less expensive options with smaller and/or older devices, see: <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36953360 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36953360>, and that price list comes from <https://onyxboox.com/product/compare https://onyxboox.com/product/compare>.) And finally, related topic, E-Ink Design Principles for Web and Applications: - Persistence is free - Paints are expensive - Refreshes are slow - Colours are very limited or nonexistent - Line art displays beautifully. Raster images not so much - Pagination navigation is strongly preferred to scroll - Graphics are reflective rather than emissive - Touch / Wacom may exist - Feature detection capabilities are limited <https://diaspora.glasswings.com/posts/638a8d10e041013afba8448a5b29e257 https://diaspora.glasswings.com/posts/638a8d10e041013afba844...>