They are not well polished academia types who publish a couple papers or more per year using their students. I have some friends who do that, they get multiple

They are not well polished academia types who publish a couple papers or more per year using their students. I have some friends who do that, they get multiple papers accepted at top conferences every year and make increment progress on a regular basis. These guys are completely against the type here. Off in their own lab with no publications in years, having trouble raising money to fund their research, shifting to part time, then bringing in collaborators merely to get money, their attempt at publication is a mess as a result. Yes, compared to normal academia, they are amateurs or at least idiosyncratic weirdos. I'm rooting for them, do not get me wrong, but they are not normal academics.