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Cannabis "addiction" is as problematic as caffeine "addiction". I put those in quotes because neither are what typically comes to mind when a person thinks abou

Cannabis "addiction" is as problematic as caffeine "addiction". I put those in quotes because neither are what typically comes to mind when a person thinks about drug addiction. If you think quitting weed is hard, try quitting coffee if you have it every day. For me, suddenly quitting coffee results in severe migraine headaches and I can't do my job well. Extreme irritability and fatigue, it's truly a stimulant drug withdrawal. It takes about a week or so to get through it, and having green tea in its place is the only way I can reasonably taper down. A similar kind of thing happens if you suddenly stop smoking weed when you use it daily - cold sweats, irritability, but it only lasts about a day. Anyone who has struggled with caffeine, alcohol, or amphetamine addiction (yes, including ADHD pills), who has gone through a cannabis withdrawal will be pleasantly surprised for lack of a better description at how short-lived it is. I believe that's why so many stoners exclaim "I can quit at any time if I wanted", it's not that big of a deal. I really believe the negative effects of over-consuming caffeine (irritability, cold sweats, heart racing nervousness), and also the effect of withdrawing from caffeine, are both more severe than either with cannabis. Because caffeine is an accepted daily-use stimulant in our society, I compare it to that.

dumpster_fire 3y ago
While I agree on the withdrawal symptoms, the main differentiating point for me is that drinking coffee doesn't waste time. Marijuana consumption is one of the most unproductive things to do for leisure. I don't do alcohol for the same reason, it's a massive waste of time. Both render the consumer functionally useless for hours, and, if you're older, assures that the next day will be extremely unpleasant. There's also a big difference on a social level. Have you ever had a pothead as a roommate? The entire house smells like a garbage dump 24/7. Whereas freshly ground coffee actually smells good. Coffee addicts only bothered me with their unwashed V60s lying around in the sink.
- bennyschmidt 3y ago
  With respect, this sounds like a kids show depiction. It's not like an opiate, nor anything like being drunk. People use it while working - coders, writers, artists, etc. in the day time, often along with coffee. I think a lot of people get this wrong about weed, because "functionally useless" is not at all how I would describe it. Some of your favorite music, video games, even coding libraries were created by stoners! Also when you say coffee smells good and cannabis doesn't - highly subjective right? I love coffee, but some really high quality coffee smells like s*t haha (literally). There are some fruity, piney, lemony, and floral scents from fresh cannabis, just like there is a nice aroma from fresh coffee. In both cases you're talking about a flowering plant, with highly subjective smells and varying terpenoid profiles. However, note that the terepenes "pinene" "limonene" etc. in cannabis are the exact same plant terpenoids in pine trees, lemons, etc. so if you like the smell of pine trees, lemon, mangoes, roses, and other highly floral scents, you will likely also at least appreciate the smell of cannabis. I've said too much for Hacker News!
  - dumpster_fire 3y ago
    Liking the smell of pine does not mean I want the smell of a pine forest fire in my house all day long. You don't see caffeine addicts rolling up coffee grounds to set fire to it, do you? There's nothing subjective about not wanting smoke in my lungs. If someone wants to get pot buzzed, go eat an edible and waste a day of productivity for all I care. Smoking the entire house, and costing me my deposit while justifying it with "George Carlin wrote jokes on weed" is peak pothead narcissism that makes me want to have it permanently banned.
x86x87 3y ago
Yes, caffeine, nicotine, sugar, alcohol. They are all massively addictive and one could make the argument that we would be better off without them. That being said, I believe everything should be legal and the decision to consume or not should be left to informed people. The whole "war on drugs" shenanigans has gone on for too long with crap results.
- bennyschmidt 3y ago
  I agree all drugs should be decriminalized. There would have to be some market regulation around sales and storefronts, at least the level of cigarettes and alcohol in regards to the customer being of age, product packaging, quality control, what-not. There is still a problem where... if you just allow stores to sell amphetamines and opiates, even if they meet the legal requirements, the usage of those drugs will simply go up. Taking that into account, a lot of people prefer it to stay illegal. Even though what you said makes the most logical sense, people would overwhelmingly not want their kids to be able to buy it so easily, and they'd vote to keep them illegal. Hospitals and doctors of course want them to be illegal too, so they can remain the sole legal distributors of opiates and amphetamines. I think the cannabis dispensary model could prove out something interesting. Although psilocybin is not my thing, I see they're trying it out in a few locations.
  - x86x87 3y ago
    yup. quality control and regulating the conditions under which the drug is produced makes sense to prevent harmful things from happening when you buy and use stuff that is dubious (fentanyl-laced crap comes to mind). setting aside the normalization of certain drugs like alcohol and sugar that are, imho, very dangerous, the test for me would be: how harmful is drug X to society through the lens of the non-consumer (i.e. everything that only causes harm to the individual that consumes it without causing harm to society should be allowed, no exceptions. stuff that has the potential to cause harm to society members that don't take the drug - e.g. PCP should have some guardrails around it). in the US people like to talk about freedom this, freedom that, but ultimately they are not free. Free in my opinion is to be able to do whatever the frack you want without impacting others.

dumpster_fire 3y ago

While I agree on the withdrawal symptoms, the main differentiating point for me is that drinking coffee doesn't waste time. Marijuana consumption is one of the most unproductive things to do for leisure. I don't do alcohol for the same reason, it's a massive waste of time. Both render the consumer functionally useless for hours, and, if you're older, assures that the next day will be extremely unpleasant. There's also a big difference on a social level. Have you ever had a pothead as a roommate? The entire house smells like a garbage dump 24/7. Whereas freshly ground coffee actually smells good. Coffee addicts only bothered me with their unwashed V60s lying around in the sink.

bennyschmidt 3y ago
With respect, this sounds like a kids show depiction. It's not like an opiate, nor anything like being drunk. People use it while working - coders, writers, artists, etc. in the day time, often along with coffee. I think a lot of people get this wrong about weed, because "functionally useless" is not at all how I would describe it. Some of your favorite music, video games, even coding libraries were created by stoners! Also when you say coffee smells good and cannabis doesn't - highly subjective right? I love coffee, but some really high quality coffee smells like s*t haha (literally). There are some fruity, piney, lemony, and floral scents from fresh cannabis, just like there is a nice aroma from fresh coffee. In both cases you're talking about a flowering plant, with highly subjective smells and varying terpenoid profiles. However, note that the terepenes "pinene" "limonene" etc. in cannabis are the exact same plant terpenoids in pine trees, lemons, etc. so if you like the smell of pine trees, lemon, mangoes, roses, and other highly floral scents, you will likely also at least appreciate the smell of cannabis. I've said too much for Hacker News!
- dumpster_fire 3y ago
  Liking the smell of pine does not mean I want the smell of a pine forest fire in my house all day long. You don't see caffeine addicts rolling up coffee grounds to set fire to it, do you? There's nothing subjective about not wanting smoke in my lungs. If someone wants to get pot buzzed, go eat an edible and waste a day of productivity for all I care. Smoking the entire house, and costing me my deposit while justifying it with "George Carlin wrote jokes on weed" is peak pothead narcissism that makes me want to have it permanently banned.

x86x87 3y ago

Yes, caffeine, nicotine, sugar, alcohol. They are all massively addictive and one could make the argument that we would be better off without them. That being said, I believe everything should be legal and the decision to consume or not should be left to informed people. The whole "war on drugs" shenanigans has gone on for too long with crap results.

bennyschmidt 3y ago
I agree all drugs should be decriminalized. There would have to be some market regulation around sales and storefronts, at least the level of cigarettes and alcohol in regards to the customer being of age, product packaging, quality control, what-not. There is still a problem where... if you just allow stores to sell amphetamines and opiates, even if they meet the legal requirements, the usage of those drugs will simply go up. Taking that into account, a lot of people prefer it to stay illegal. Even though what you said makes the most logical sense, people would overwhelmingly not want their kids to be able to buy it so easily, and they'd vote to keep them illegal. Hospitals and doctors of course want them to be illegal too, so they can remain the sole legal distributors of opiates and amphetamines. I think the cannabis dispensary model could prove out something interesting. Although psilocybin is not my thing, I see they're trying it out in a few locations.
- x86x87 3y ago
  yup. quality control and regulating the conditions under which the drug is produced makes sense to prevent harmful things from happening when you buy and use stuff that is dubious (fentanyl-laced crap comes to mind). setting aside the normalization of certain drugs like alcohol and sugar that are, imho, very dangerous, the test for me would be: how harmful is drug X to society through the lens of the non-consumer (i.e. everything that only causes harm to the individual that consumes it without causing harm to society should be allowed, no exceptions. stuff that has the potential to cause harm to society members that don't take the drug - e.g. PCP should have some guardrails around it). in the US people like to talk about freedom this, freedom that, but ultimately they are not free. Free in my opinion is to be able to do whatever the frack you want without impacting others.