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The grass example is also a nice demonstration of how the conventions differ around the world. In some countries it is taken for granted that one can sit or lie

The grass example is also a nice demonstration of how the conventions differ around the world. In some countries it is taken for granted that one can sit or lie down on any lawn in a public area. In others, they are carefully manicured and surrounded by fences and inscriptions trying to dissuade people from doing the obvious thing everyone wants to!

FoomFries 3y ago
The tragedy of the commons is as pervasive as it is overlooked.
- Nevermark 3y ago
  Endemic rule breaking may be "tragic" but in environments that are designed, it is clear honest feedback. Beautiful patches of grass must have some value to weary passerby's eyes. But surely the grass would be more beautiful AND comforting to that demographic if it included some interesting looking sittable rocks.
anyfoo 3y ago
Entirely correct. I'm from Western Europe, and almost everything (or at least a great lot) that is humanly accessible is meant to be used by humans, including grass. Note that this is not in opposition to "carefully manicured", as there is plenty of lawn (for example) which is carefully tended to, but still publicly accessible. It's also totally natural to sit on art, if it's convenient for sitting, even if it's many centuries old. A decade ago I moved to California, and it's a very stark contrast there. There is so much greenery and similar that is just "off limits" and made for just looking at it. Generally, in California things feel much more "fenced off", even without any actual fences.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- OkGoDoIt 3y ago
  Similarly, I will never understand Central Park in New York City. I was there a couple years ago and the vast majority of the grass is not meant to be walked on. Most of the paths have a little mini fences surrounding them and there’s tons of signage saying not to walk on the grass. There’s exceptions here and there throughout park park, but generally it’s a park where you’re not allowed on the green spaces, which is just absurd to me. I’ll take the openness of Golden Gate Park in San Francisco over the travesty that is NYC Central Park any day. But of course Salesforce “Park” in San Francisco is similar, you’re not allowed off the paths other than certain small approved lawn areas, and the security has yelled at me about it multiple times. So much for a public park.
  - cycomanic 3y ago
    In the botanic gardens in Sydney they actually put up signs "yes you are allowed to get on the grass" because I assume many tourists assumed you are not allowed to (in probably tried to tell other people off).
  - TylerE 3y ago
    GGP is 30% more area for a fraction of the population. Open grass in Manhattan would get absolutely destroyed in days.
    - Macha 3y ago
      It's not purely population though. My neighbourhood has a desire path, where the grass has been killed off my people walking through it. The traffic is a few people an hour, mostly kids. However, one of the main parks has similar areas where you get 10s to 100s of people an hour, or people covering it up for extended periods of time for picnics, etc. If population was all that mattered, the park would be barren and the path would be lush, rather than the other way around
  - paulpauper 3y ago
    it makes sense though. too many people walk on the grass and suddenly there is no more grass, just dirt, especially if the ground is soft
- croisillon 3y ago
  western? i’ve seen the police remove people from the grass next to the eiffel tower
  - anyfoo 3y ago
    Someone else here said that it is custom for Parisians to lay on any available patch of grass (like I know from other Western European cities). So it’s okay to assume that that particular patch, along with Disney Land in the article, are exceptions to that rule.
    - brabel 3y ago
      Another example from Europe that I've just seen: in Vienna's Shoenbrunn Palace[1], pretty much all grass in the gardens is off limit (but most grass in the public parks in the city is open). I suppose that makes sense because that garden is specifically made to look splendid, not for people to picnic on, and given the huge number of tourists coming all the time, allowing people to walk on that grass would quickly turn it into mud. [1] https://www.schoenbrunn.at/ https://www.schoenbrunn.at/
quickthrower2 3y ago
It is a performance art of NIMBY-ism. Condense 24 hour cycle for homeless people into a 3 minute show.
ggm 3y ago
Tove Jansson in the 50s wrote her Moomin characters to burn "keep off the grass" signs and park keepers were definitely "the authority" to be subverted

FoomFries 3y ago

The tragedy of the commons is as pervasive as it is overlooked.

Nevermark 3y ago
Endemic rule breaking may be "tragic" but in environments that are designed, it is clear honest feedback. Beautiful patches of grass must have some value to weary passerby's eyes. But surely the grass would be more beautiful AND comforting to that demographic if it included some interesting looking sittable rocks.

anyfoo 3y ago

Entirely correct. I'm from Western Europe, and almost everything (or at least a great lot) that is humanly accessible is meant to be used by humans, including grass. Note that this is not in opposition to "carefully manicured", as there is plenty of lawn (for example) which is carefully tended to, but still publicly accessible. It's also totally natural to sit on art, if it's convenient for sitting, even if it's many centuries old. A decade ago I moved to California, and it's a very stark contrast there. There is so much greenery and similar that is just "off limits" and made for just looking at it. Generally, in California things feel much more "fenced off", even without any actual fences.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
OkGoDoIt 3y ago
Similarly, I will never understand Central Park in New York City. I was there a couple years ago and the vast majority of the grass is not meant to be walked on. Most of the paths have a little mini fences surrounding them and there’s tons of signage saying not to walk on the grass. There’s exceptions here and there throughout park park, but generally it’s a park where you’re not allowed on the green spaces, which is just absurd to me. I’ll take the openness of Golden Gate Park in San Francisco over the travesty that is NYC Central Park any day. But of course Salesforce “Park” in San Francisco is similar, you’re not allowed off the paths other than certain small approved lawn areas, and the security has yelled at me about it multiple times. So much for a public park.
- cycomanic 3y ago
  In the botanic gardens in Sydney they actually put up signs "yes you are allowed to get on the grass" because I assume many tourists assumed you are not allowed to (in probably tried to tell other people off).
- TylerE 3y ago
  GGP is 30% more area for a fraction of the population. Open grass in Manhattan would get absolutely destroyed in days.
  - Macha 3y ago
    It's not purely population though. My neighbourhood has a desire path, where the grass has been killed off my people walking through it. The traffic is a few people an hour, mostly kids. However, one of the main parks has similar areas where you get 10s to 100s of people an hour, or people covering it up for extended periods of time for picnics, etc. If population was all that mattered, the park would be barren and the path would be lush, rather than the other way around
- paulpauper 3y ago
  it makes sense though. too many people walk on the grass and suddenly there is no more grass, just dirt, especially if the ground is soft
croisillon 3y ago
western? i’ve seen the police remove people from the grass next to the eiffel tower
- anyfoo 3y ago
  Someone else here said that it is custom for Parisians to lay on any available patch of grass (like I know from other Western European cities). So it’s okay to assume that that particular patch, along with Disney Land in the article, are exceptions to that rule.
  - brabel 3y ago
    Another example from Europe that I've just seen: in Vienna's Shoenbrunn Palace[1], pretty much all grass in the gardens is off limit (but most grass in the public parks in the city is open). I suppose that makes sense because that garden is specifically made to look splendid, not for people to picnic on, and given the huge number of tourists coming all the time, allowing people to walk on that grass would quickly turn it into mud. [1] https://www.schoenbrunn.at/ https://www.schoenbrunn.at/

quickthrower2 3y ago

It is a performance art of NIMBY-ism. Condense 24 hour cycle for homeless people into a 3 minute show.

ggm 3y ago

Tove Jansson in the 50s wrote her Moomin characters to burn "keep off the grass" signs and park keepers were definitely "the authority" to be subverted