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> StackOverflow tries to be the site where "the answer to X is Y" StackOverflow is widely known as the place to get insulted for asking how to do X with Y. It

> StackOverflow tries to be the site where "the answer to X is Y" StackOverflow is widely known as the place to get insulted for asking how to do X with Y. It doesn't matter what X or Y is, the answer is always "you shouldn't be doing it that way, why would you even ask that?"

the_af 3y ago
Sometimes. Not always. I do know I almost always find the answer I need, and someone has already asked it, so no need for me to write anything. I also don't care if it's closed as a dupe, since all I care about is whether it answers my question, not about reputation or status. I even contributed some useful answers! Did I get into pointless back and forths with aggressive users (and of course, sometimes I was the one in the wrong)? Sure! But so have I here on HN. I'd say of the last 5 years or so, the worst, most aggressive, and draining flamewars I've been involved in were here, in HN. Much worse than StackOverflow. Would you say HN is useless or failing because of this? I wouldn't!
glenstein 3y ago
>StackOverflow is widely known as the place to get insulted for asking how to do X with Y. It doesn't matter what X or Y is, the answer is always "you shouldn't be doing it that way, why would you even ask that?" I think that's true, but lateral to the point being made above. Stack Overflow banning opinion based questions was done for good reason and not part of the reason for its loss in traffic.
- sedatk 3y ago
  The problem is, by removing humane parts of interpersonal communication (remember, even thanking or greeting was forbidden on SO), you essentially encourage inhumane communication. When you treat users as Q&A bots, people will treat them as bots too, forgetting that they're people. I observe this on Wikipedia too. Your contributions are merely regarded as automatically materialized prose instead of work of a human because Wikipedia's format also forbids "staining" the content with your individuality.
  - wtallis 3y ago
    > you essentially encourage inhumane communication Yes, because StackOverflow—like Wikipedia—is not about interpersonal communication. Neither is intended to be a forum. They're intended to be repositories of reference information. Nobody wants their encyclopedia or dictionary to engage in idle chit chat with them.
    - sedatk 3y ago
      This kind of perspective ("but <web site whose content is created by humans> isn't about <essential notion of humanity>") is the bane of such platforms. I think it stems from an engineer mindset that considers users as abstract entities rather than people. Almost as if people are like sun's rays that energize your web site, rather than actual beings who experience it, have emotions and all kinds of complexities and individual differences. Any web site that relies on humans for its content must accept humanity, and commit to serve the needs of the humane sides of its users. Otherwise, you'll end up with all kinds of toxicity, abuse, and finally abandonment that is observed with SO.
      - wtallis 3y ago
        I think you're just being narrow-minded, and much of what you consider "essential" to "humane" communication is what many other people consider distracting bullshit. Impersonal technical writing is hardly a new phenomenon, and it has been widely accepted within academia for centuries, so clearly what you consider essential is not at all essential. Stop and imagine if the search results you get for programming were as polluted with "personal touches" as the results you get when searching for recipes.
        sedatk 3y ago
        ==== FINAL MODERATION WARNING ==== Your content contains opinions. Please rephrase your comment in a neutral tone directly addressing the arguments instead of the person without polluting it with your opinions. Your personal assessments on a person or a topic have zero value and considered a BS (baseless statement™). We only expect you to respond to the arguments in a logical, netural, unopinionated language to achieve purest form of information in JSON format so it can easily be digested by AI training machinae. This is your final warning. Otherwise, your account will be replaced with a more logical, analytical, objective user in the waitlist according to the terms of the license you agreed during the registration. MOD27-123 XBOTMODX v2.7.1283
- j45 3y ago
  It’s also a place where someone says this is not the place for that question, except there’s no place for that question.
pwagland 3y ago
I have never had this experience though. It does appear to be incredibly unfriendly to a lot of people, but honestly when I look at some of the questions that get downvoted, it seems that a lot of the questions that do get downvoted are "help me, I've done no research!" That said, it's pretty hard to get a good answer on the site these days. And, as a volunteer, most of the questions on the site, I don't have the inclination to answer. Most of the rest I don't have the requisite skills to answer. Which ends up meaning that I don't spend much time answering questions anymore either.

the_af 3y ago

Sometimes. Not always. I do know I almost always find the answer I need, and someone has already asked it, so no need for me to write anything. I also don't care if it's closed as a dupe, since all I care about is whether it answers my question, not about reputation or status. I even contributed some useful answers! Did I get into pointless back and forths with aggressive users (and of course, sometimes I was the one in the wrong)? Sure! But so have I here on HN. I'd say of the last 5 years or so, the worst, most aggressive, and draining flamewars I've been involved in were here, in HN. Much worse than StackOverflow. Would you say HN is useless or failing because of this? I wouldn't!

glenstein 3y ago

>StackOverflow is widely known as the place to get insulted for asking how to do X with Y. It doesn't matter what X or Y is, the answer is always "you shouldn't be doing it that way, why would you even ask that?" I think that's true, but lateral to the point being made above. Stack Overflow banning opinion based questions was done for good reason and not part of the reason for its loss in traffic.

sedatk 3y ago
The problem is, by removing humane parts of interpersonal communication (remember, even thanking or greeting was forbidden on SO), you essentially encourage inhumane communication. When you treat users as Q&A bots, people will treat them as bots too, forgetting that they're people. I observe this on Wikipedia too. Your contributions are merely regarded as automatically materialized prose instead of work of a human because Wikipedia's format also forbids "staining" the content with your individuality.
- wtallis 3y ago
  > you essentially encourage inhumane communication Yes, because StackOverflow—like Wikipedia—is not about interpersonal communication. Neither is intended to be a forum. They're intended to be repositories of reference information. Nobody wants their encyclopedia or dictionary to engage in idle chit chat with them.
  - sedatk 3y ago
    This kind of perspective ("but <web site whose content is created by humans> isn't about <essential notion of humanity>") is the bane of such platforms. I think it stems from an engineer mindset that considers users as abstract entities rather than people. Almost as if people are like sun's rays that energize your web site, rather than actual beings who experience it, have emotions and all kinds of complexities and individual differences. Any web site that relies on humans for its content must accept humanity, and commit to serve the needs of the humane sides of its users. Otherwise, you'll end up with all kinds of toxicity, abuse, and finally abandonment that is observed with SO.
    - wtallis 3y ago
      I think you're just being narrow-minded, and much of what you consider "essential" to "humane" communication is what many other people consider distracting bullshit. Impersonal technical writing is hardly a new phenomenon, and it has been widely accepted within academia for centuries, so clearly what you consider essential is not at all essential. Stop and imagine if the search results you get for programming were as polluted with "personal touches" as the results you get when searching for recipes.
      - sedatk 3y ago
        ==== FINAL MODERATION WARNING ==== Your content contains opinions. Please rephrase your comment in a neutral tone directly addressing the arguments instead of the person without polluting it with your opinions. Your personal assessments on a person or a topic have zero value and considered a BS (baseless statement™). We only expect you to respond to the arguments in a logical, netural, unopinionated language to achieve purest form of information in JSON format so it can easily be digested by AI training machinae. This is your final warning. Otherwise, your account will be replaced with a more logical, analytical, objective user in the waitlist according to the terms of the license you agreed during the registration. MOD27-123 XBOTMODX v2.7.1283
j45 3y ago
It’s also a place where someone says this is not the place for that question, except there’s no place for that question.

pwagland 3y ago

I have never had this experience though. It does appear to be incredibly unfriendly to a lot of people, but honestly when I look at some of the questions that get downvoted, it seems that a lot of the questions that do get downvoted are "help me, I've done no research!" That said, it's pretty hard to get a good answer on the site these days. And, as a volunteer, most of the questions on the site, I don't have the inclination to answer. Most of the rest I don't have the requisite skills to answer. Which ends up meaning that I don't spend much time answering questions anymore either.