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Your comment doesn’t refute the idea that JAMStack isn’t modern web development. All you did was pull up the over-used statistic of “80% of the web is PHP” whic

Your comment doesn’t refute the idea that JAMStack isn’t modern web development. All you did was pull up the over-used statistic of “80% of the web is PHP” which I’ve heard for well over a decade. It may have been true at one point, but I highly doubt it is now. (Citation needed) Netlify has done nothing but innovate and push the needle forward for front-end devs. I’ll be there until there’s a VERY strong reason not to be.

shiftpgdn 3y ago
https://w3techs.com/technologies/details/pl-php https://w3techs.com/technologies/details/pl-php 77.4% as of today.
- notatoad 3y ago
  >of all the websites whose server-side programming language we know. i'd be curious to know what portion of websites they scan they know this for.
  - cies 3y ago
    PHP is know for being very leaky about being PHP (and since PHP + ecosystem have a bad history of CVEs, being leaky about being PHP is not cool). Java/Kotlin/Go/Rust/Ruby/Python/JS/TS are a lot less leaky about what language the server-side is written in. Usually the webserver used advertises itself name and in a server string, but it is considered bad practice and thus often switched off. Reading "php" extensions in paths is a clear giveaway, so are "htm" extensions for microsoft products. Tools usually guess the language/framework based on some of these giveaways and the better the tools the less this is evident. I jut checked some web apps I worked on, and only the one I last touched 10+ years ago is detected with buildwith.com; it's a Rails site. All the Java/Kotlin/Rust/Hasura+Elm apps I worked on since are now shown as "Nginx" (the rev proxy in front of it).
    - tacker2000 3y ago
      How is being “leaky” in any way bad or even good? Every programming language has holes, its just that with PHP the attack surface is much larger, so i guess people find more holes, etc.. Are you advocating “security by obscurity”?
      - justinclift 3y ago
        While it kind of is security by obscurity, it's a very basic piece of server hardening to stop telling potential attackers what software you're using (within reason). Back in the day (!), server software used to honestly respond with things like the software name and exact version number it was running. Naturally, that meant scanning for vulnerabilities was a lot easier than it needed to be.
        TylerE 3y ago
        All security is by obscurity. Some is useful.
        cies 3y ago
        Not true. There are some real cryptographic realities that are based in "open" math principles. There's also the way of most using runtimes/libraries that (constantly) have CVEs in them; and understanding why it is that these languages have CVEs in the first place (see my comment on "eval()").
        TylerE 3y ago
        A cryptographic key is an obscured secret.
        justinclift 3y ago
        Also, the overly muscled guys out the front of night clubs aren't there for "obscurity" type security. ;)
      - 3y ago
bdcravens 3y ago
If people are picking up non-JAMstack solutions for greenfield web development, then that means JAMstack is just one of many options for "modern web development". (Along with Laravel, Rails, Django, and even/especially Wordpress, depending on how we gatekeep what we mean by "web development")

shiftpgdn 3y ago

https://w3techs.com/technologies/details/pl-php https://w3techs.com/technologies/details/pl-php 77.4% as of today.

notatoad 3y ago
>of all the websites whose server-side programming language we know. i'd be curious to know what portion of websites they scan they know this for.
- cies 3y ago
  PHP is know for being very leaky about being PHP (and since PHP + ecosystem have a bad history of CVEs, being leaky about being PHP is not cool). Java/Kotlin/Go/Rust/Ruby/Python/JS/TS are a lot less leaky about what language the server-side is written in. Usually the webserver used advertises itself name and in a server string, but it is considered bad practice and thus often switched off. Reading "php" extensions in paths is a clear giveaway, so are "htm" extensions for microsoft products. Tools usually guess the language/framework based on some of these giveaways and the better the tools the less this is evident. I jut checked some web apps I worked on, and only the one I last touched 10+ years ago is detected with buildwith.com; it's a Rails site. All the Java/Kotlin/Rust/Hasura+Elm apps I worked on since are now shown as "Nginx" (the rev proxy in front of it).
  - tacker2000 3y ago
    How is being “leaky” in any way bad or even good? Every programming language has holes, its just that with PHP the attack surface is much larger, so i guess people find more holes, etc.. Are you advocating “security by obscurity”?
    - justinclift 3y ago
      While it kind of is security by obscurity, it's a very basic piece of server hardening to stop telling potential attackers what software you're using (within reason). Back in the day (!), server software used to honestly respond with things like the software name and exact version number it was running. Naturally, that meant scanning for vulnerabilities was a lot easier than it needed to be.
      - TylerE 3y ago
        All security is by obscurity. Some is useful.
        cies 3y ago
        Not true. There are some real cryptographic realities that are based in "open" math principles. There's also the way of most using runtimes/libraries that (constantly) have CVEs in them; and understanding why it is that these languages have CVEs in the first place (see my comment on "eval()").
        TylerE 3y ago
        A cryptographic key is an obscured secret.
        justinclift 3y ago
        Also, the overly muscled guys out the front of night clubs aren't there for "obscurity" type security. ;)
    - 3y ago

bdcravens 3y ago

If people are picking up non-JAMstack solutions for greenfield web development, then that means JAMstack is just one of many options for "modern web development". (Along with Laravel, Rails, Django, and even/especially Wordpress, depending on how we gatekeep what we mean by "web development")