4 ms·

(> I doubt this hardline assertion... ) (I'll cop to having an iPhone, but only because my sister got it as part of a package deal last time she renewed her ph

(> I doubt this hardline assertion... ) (I'll cop to having an iPhone, but only because my sister got it as part of a package deal last time she renewed her phone contract. I only use it to communicate with her, and only because we have to coordinate closely on the care of our elderly mother. I have installed no apps, and I removed most of the ones that came with it. Other than that, yeah, I run all Libre/Open software. I rarely actually read it, of course, but in theory I could.) (⌐■-■) (Sardonic-"I'm so cool" self-deprecatory shades.)

mindslight 3y ago
Got you! No seriously, I wasn't trying to call you out as some sort of purity inquisition. Rather my point is this binary "only Libre software" is the wrong way of looking at things, even for free software zealots (myself included). I was really just betting on you using at least one of the following - proprietary BIOS, non-free network switch/router, wifi, a run of the mill keyboard or mouse, a switching AC adapter, any modern appliance, or a webpage that runs javascript from a remote server you don't control. My point is that it's basically impossible to avoid proprietary software these days. So we're better off analyzing the use of proprietary software in terms of how it can specifically work against you within the context it's being used, rather than as some binary go/nogo thing. Like my main desktop is a KGPE-D16 running almost blobless coreboot (⌐■-■), apart from the CPU microcode, which I don't have much choice on besides to trust AMD at some point in time. Yet there are numerous domains of proprietary software that support it, without which it could not run. However those domains don't impinge upon my freedom within the CPU domain, as they are appropriately isolated. For example if I focus on my keyboard, its software's lack of freedom seriously destroys my ability to modify it. This is terrible, within that narrow context of modifying my keyboard. However it's not relevant to the larger scope, as the keyboard isn't really able to affect the freedom of the CPU domain.
- carapace 3y ago
  > I was really just betting on you using at least one of the following - proprietary BIOS, non-free network switch/router, wifi, a run of the mill keyboard or mouse, a switching AC adapter, any modern appliance, or a webpage that runs javascript from a remote server you don't control. Heck, you don't even have to go that far, I'm running Ubuntu on this laptop right now. It has no ethernet port and only Ubuntu could configure the Wi-Fi (without hand-holding): something to do with proprietary drivers for the chipset or something like that. > My point is that it's basically impossible to avoid proprietary software these days. Yeah, but that's the problem, that's the very circumstance with which we should not compromise (in my opinion. And yeah, I'm compromising right now, but I don't like it. It's a long story, but in a nutshell I'm moving and stuck using a cheap laptop at the moment. One day soon...) I'm almost at the point where I'm going to make my own chips! Quoting myself from the other day on the Zenbleed thread: "Every time I think it's insane to contemplate making one's own chips something like this comes up, and I realize it's insane to let so much of our lives depend on these insanely complicated devices. It feels like walking on a tightrope above an unbounded fractal chasm."

mindslight 3y ago

Got you! No seriously, I wasn't trying to call you out as some sort of purity inquisition. Rather my point is this binary "only Libre software" is the wrong way of looking at things, even for free software zealots (myself included). I was really just betting on you using at least one of the following - proprietary BIOS, non-free network switch/router, wifi, a run of the mill keyboard or mouse, a switching AC adapter, any modern appliance, or a webpage that runs javascript from a remote server you don't control. My point is that it's basically impossible to avoid proprietary software these days. So we're better off analyzing the use of proprietary software in terms of how it can specifically work against you within the context it's being used, rather than as some binary go/nogo thing. Like my main desktop is a KGPE-D16 running almost blobless coreboot (⌐■-■), apart from the CPU microcode, which I don't have much choice on besides to trust AMD at some point in time. Yet there are numerous domains of proprietary software that support it, without which it could not run. However those domains don't impinge upon my freedom within the CPU domain, as they are appropriately isolated. For example if I focus on my keyboard, its software's lack of freedom seriously destroys my ability to modify it. This is terrible, within that narrow context of modifying my keyboard. However it's not relevant to the larger scope, as the keyboard isn't really able to affect the freedom of the CPU domain.

carapace 3y ago
> I was really just betting on you using at least one of the following - proprietary BIOS, non-free network switch/router, wifi, a run of the mill keyboard or mouse, a switching AC adapter, any modern appliance, or a webpage that runs javascript from a remote server you don't control. Heck, you don't even have to go that far, I'm running Ubuntu on this laptop right now. It has no ethernet port and only Ubuntu could configure the Wi-Fi (without hand-holding): something to do with proprietary drivers for the chipset or something like that. > My point is that it's basically impossible to avoid proprietary software these days. Yeah, but that's the problem, that's the very circumstance with which we should not compromise (in my opinion. And yeah, I'm compromising right now, but I don't like it. It's a long story, but in a nutshell I'm moving and stuck using a cheap laptop at the moment. One day soon...) I'm almost at the point where I'm going to make my own chips! Quoting myself from the other day on the Zenbleed thread: "Every time I think it's insane to contemplate making one's own chips something like this comes up, and I realize it's insane to let so much of our lives depend on these insanely complicated devices. It feels like walking on a tightrope above an unbounded fractal chasm."