4 ms·

Not as much as you think - the people selling them want you to think the old ones were awful and need replacing, but they were designed for both reasonable effi

by dublin 3y ago

Not as much as you think - the people selling them want you to think the old ones were awful and need replacing, but they were designed for both reasonable efficiency and decades-long life. (You really need to factor in a literal 6-10x lifespan difference into efficiency and environmental impact figures, too...) I have a large 60s/70s vintage chest freezer I bought on Craigslist a few years ago. I worried that it was power-hungry, so I got a Kill-A-Watt and monitored it. I don't remember the exact figures I came up with, but it was pretty negligible: Even in my non air conditioned (but attached) garage in Austin (with the highest electric rates in the state, by far), it costs me only about a dollar a month to run. So we're saving a ton of money by being able to buy and store as much frozen food as we want, at a cost of $45 up front to buy the freezer, plus a buck a month to run it - that's a deal to me. All appliances, back when they were made here in the USA, lasted for decades. I have a cousin who had a (admitttedly expensive at the time) KitchenAid dishwasher from circa 1960! (In very cool copper color!) It still ran perfectly when she sold her ranch house several years ago.

secabeen 3y ago
Chest freezers are a little special, as they don't need much actual cooling power if the insulation is functional and they aren't opened. Vertical freezers and fridges lose all their cold air when opened, chests don't.
magicalist 3y ago
I mean, it's a cooler packed with a bunch of frozen stuff. Of course it's cheap to maintain its cool, that's why it's designed the way it was. > in Austin (with the highest electric rates in the state, by far) This is tangential to your point, but this isn't remotely true
hobo_in_library 3y ago
> You really need to factor in a literal 6-10x lifespan difference into efficiency and environmental impact figures, too... I would love to see energy efficiency regulations take the item's expected lifespan into consideration instead of being a mere "energy per hour" measurement. One simple/naive way to do it would be to divide (energy per hour) by the number of years on the warranty. Your warranty is for twice as long as the other guy? Then your device can use 2x the energy. Obv, this would require the warranty to be a "full" warranty, and not something manufacturers can too easily weasel out of.
- xbkingx 3y ago
  I would love that, too, but it's not possible today. Everyone would offer 25 year warranties, close up shop in 5 years, and reopen as a new subsidy or company. The only way I see it working is to hold some large portion of the revenue in a trust and relinquish it to the company over the warrantied lifespan. The company would have to operate at a loss for a while to books those reserves, so there would have top be something like a zero interest government loan to cover the cost, which can't be escaped through bankruptcy. Or maybe a contract like the shitty cell phone plans in the US. Buyer agrees to pay for the full price of the appliance over the warrantied lifetime in installments. If you want to sell it or trade it in early, you either have to finish off the payment or transfer the contract. The company would have to service the product (within reason), or the contract is voided, releasing the buyer from payment obligations. Again, this system can be easily gamed, too, in today's market, but I just can't imagine a scenario that doesn't require a major paradigm shift. I do a decent amount of 3d printing and I cannot count the number of random letter Amazon brands for filament that have popped up over the last year. Most are simply rebranded waste from larger manufacturers. Once the product gets below 3.5 stars, the brand disappears and a suspiciously similar new brand pops up with the same spool design and 20 5-star reviews overnight.
jancsika 3y ago
> it costs me only about a dollar a month to run The low end Frigidaires are estimated at $56 a year, perhaps $8 less per year for an Energy Star one. I don't know anything about chest freezers, but there's no way a general purpose 1960s/70s fridge that one opens multiple times a day gets anything close to that.
- BenjiWiebe 3y ago
  Chest freezers are automatically a lot more efficient. The cold air tends to stay in them when opened, unlike upright models.
  - jancsika 3y ago
    So it's apples vs. oranges. How much energy is used by upright 60s/70s vintage fridges? If anyone has data I'd like to know it.

by dublin 3y ago

secabeen 3y ago

Chest freezers are a little special, as they don't need much actual cooling power if the insulation is functional and they aren't opened. Vertical freezers and fridges lose all their cold air when opened, chests don't.

magicalist 3y ago

I mean, it's a cooler packed with a bunch of frozen stuff. Of course it's cheap to maintain its cool, that's why it's designed the way it was. > in Austin (with the highest electric rates in the state, by far) This is tangential to your point, but this isn't remotely true

hobo_in_library 3y ago

> You really need to factor in a literal 6-10x lifespan difference into efficiency and environmental impact figures, too... I would love to see energy efficiency regulations take the item's expected lifespan into consideration instead of being a mere "energy per hour" measurement. One simple/naive way to do it would be to divide (energy per hour) by the number of years on the warranty. Your warranty is for twice as long as the other guy? Then your device can use 2x the energy. Obv, this would require the warranty to be a "full" warranty, and not something manufacturers can too easily weasel out of.

xbkingx 3y ago
I would love that, too, but it's not possible today. Everyone would offer 25 year warranties, close up shop in 5 years, and reopen as a new subsidy or company. The only way I see it working is to hold some large portion of the revenue in a trust and relinquish it to the company over the warrantied lifespan. The company would have to operate at a loss for a while to books those reserves, so there would have top be something like a zero interest government loan to cover the cost, which can't be escaped through bankruptcy. Or maybe a contract like the shitty cell phone plans in the US. Buyer agrees to pay for the full price of the appliance over the warrantied lifetime in installments. If you want to sell it or trade it in early, you either have to finish off the payment or transfer the contract. The company would have to service the product (within reason), or the contract is voided, releasing the buyer from payment obligations. Again, this system can be easily gamed, too, in today's market, but I just can't imagine a scenario that doesn't require a major paradigm shift. I do a decent amount of 3d printing and I cannot count the number of random letter Amazon brands for filament that have popped up over the last year. Most are simply rebranded waste from larger manufacturers. Once the product gets below 3.5 stars, the brand disappears and a suspiciously similar new brand pops up with the same spool design and 20 5-star reviews overnight.

jancsika 3y ago

> it costs me only about a dollar a month to run The low end Frigidaires are estimated at $56 a year, perhaps $8 less per year for an Energy Star one. I don't know anything about chest freezers, but there's no way a general purpose 1960s/70s fridge that one opens multiple times a day gets anything close to that.

BenjiWiebe 3y ago
Chest freezers are automatically a lot more efficient. The cold air tends to stay in them when opened, unlike upright models.
- jancsika 3y ago
  So it's apples vs. oranges. How much energy is used by upright 60s/70s vintage fridges? If anyone has data I'd like to know it.