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Hotels need to have flight-style pricing. Remember back in the 2000s when Spirit Airlines would advertise $9 flights, that only at the very last moment of the

Hotels need to have flight-style pricing. Remember back in the 2000s when Spirit Airlines would advertise $9 flights, that only at the very last moment of the checkout stage would have a government compliance fee, all taxes, gas costs, flight attendant costs, etc added on to make a $120 flight? That's what hotel pricing feels like today. The FTC needs to step in and make advertised pricing equal the all-in fee for everything mandatory at a hotel.

lotsofpulp 3y ago
If you search for a hotel room on Hilton/Marriott/Hyatt/IHG/etc website, that is how it is. After you select room type, it always shows you the total cost prominently. It is only travel agent/third party websites that try to hide total cost.
- wintogreen74 3y ago
  I think VRBO shows you the full cost for your visit (not in the nightly rate though!) while AirBnB shows you some subtotal presented as as the total cost, then when you start clicking through you get the "real" total cost. By that point you're already engaged though, so mission accomplished? I don't think I'd ever book a hotel through Airbnb - what's the benefit?
  - brewdad 3y ago
    > I don't think I'd ever book a hotel through Airbnb - what's the benefit? Agreed. My usual mode of search is to go to hotels.com or booking.com depending on the destination and find out what's available and to price compare. Then I go to the actual hotel's site to book the reservation. I'll end up paying the same rate either way but having a direct booking reduces the chances of there being a problem down the line since there's no third party to shift blame or act as the middleman in resolving the issue.
- EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 3y ago
  That's because people want it sorted by price ascending, and you must be near the top of that list for the customer to even see the offering. So they show an artificially low price. At the hotel's own site, there is no such competition.
  - lotsofpulp 3y ago
    Hotels are not choosing to not display the total price in third party websites, it is the third party website that is choosing to obfuscate prices.
    - listenallyall 3y ago
      But the hotel is the one charging a "resort fee" in the first place. If such a fee didn't exist, the 3rd party website wouldn't have anything to obfuscate.
      - figassis 3y ago
        I don’t think this is a valid argument. Airbnb specifically calls out including cleaning fees in these total, but this is something that affects small owners by default. The choice of cracking down on cleaning fees but not on resort fee? Purely on Airbnb. Moreover, when a host charges a cleaning see, it’s not the fee plus a tax on that fee, it’s just the fee. Hotels will tax you on each separate fee they add, so you really can’t trust that what you pay on Airbnb won’t balloon to 2x.
- listenallyall 3y ago
  Ehhh, hotel websites aren't all so clear either. Often there is a public rate and a member rate. Cancellable and non. With breakfast and without. And various confusing packages and offers for booking multiple nights or in advance, etc. Right now for the same room on the same dates at Hilton Waikiki Beach, Hilton.com shows 9 different rates (all of which don't directly include resort fee or taxes). And when a resort charges for parking, that fee is almost never included.
  - lotsofpulp 3y ago
    Offering choices is not obfuscating the price. Member pricing requires you to login because of their arrangements with third party sellers requiring them to not “publicly” advertise lower prices. And as soon as you choose a room type, Hilton shows you the total price. Perhaps not the best they could do, but not worth complaining about in my opinion. Parking is often not included or desired, so it makes no sense to include that in the price, but it is listed prominently on the final page.
    - listenallyall 3y ago
      > And as soon as you choose a room type, Hilton shows you the total price No, it shows you 9 possible per-night prices, with a small note underneath about resort fee and tax. You'd have to select one to get to the total price, and you still have to figure out some confusing terms... what is "semi-flex" rate? Which is better, deluxe mountain view or a premium mountain view? And of course, the prices might all be different if you visit the site next week.
      - lotsofpulp 3y ago
        In the app, there is a “quick book” option, above the “more rates” option. Quick book option is the cancelable reservation with typical terms. It seems pretty easy for those that want a straightforward reservation to choose quick book, and for those that want more nuance, to choose more rates and figure out what they want.
xrd 3y ago
It's worse than this. Everything you note happens, but then you are so distracted by the price change that you forget to read all the other things, like there are now at least two classes of tickets, one of which is non-refundable and non-changeable under any circumstances. And, this isn't the "scam pioneering" airlines like Spirit, this happened to me with American. When I was so busy trying to figure out the total costs once I get out of Google Flights, then I neglected to read the fine print. I have a ticket I called to change two weeks ago, and was told if I don't take that flight, I lose the value completely with zero recourse. The airlines are actively waging war on their customers. It's awful.
- kykeonaut 3y ago
  I think it might be because most airlines don't make almost any profit on tickets themselves, but now rely on selling frequent flyer miles to companies to turn profit [0]. In other words, ticket purchasers are not their costumers anymore. [0] https://abroaden.substack.com/p/the-strange-way-airlines-are-actually https://abroaden.substack.com/p/the-strange-way-airlines-are...
mbg721 3y ago
If the FTC is getting involved, the first thing they should do is make hotels knock off the minibar nonsense. I shouldn't have to play stupid "Mnaaaah, you touched it!" "No, I didn't," games.
- dheera 3y ago
  Stay at cheaper hotels, they don't have the stupid sensors in the minibar and use real human eyes to check.
  - smugma 3y ago
    Or nicer hotels where they ask “did you use anything from the minibar?”
tayo42 3y ago
Flights are pretty bad today with like 4 different tiers of economy.
joker_minmax 3y ago
Most super budget airlines do this but it's because they let you pare down by paying for random things. But even the non-budget ones like Delta save the taxes and 9/11 Fees for the end. Southwest is the only one that shows you the actual price.
- brewdad 3y ago
  Delta always shows the actual price on the search page. When you check out, they break down the costs by fare, taxes, fees etc. But if you look at the numbers, the flight that was listed on the search page as $250 gets broken down into a $160 fare, $80 in taxes and $10 in fees. It's still the same $250.
  - joker_minmax 3y ago
    I flew Delta a few months ago and don't remember it being this simple, but I probably got confused because I did look at multiple airlines that day. Maybe it's different depending on the market?
dheera 3y ago
Yes, the "resort fee" is the most bullshit of them all. Any additional "fees" should be optional. I should be able to say "I'm not using the resort, I'm not paying this". If it's mandatory it should be priced in.
- wintogreen74 3y ago
  Part of that "resort fee" is typically Wifi, bottled water and a daily newspaper, or something with next to zero cost, something you don't really need and something you don't want.
Name_Chawps 3y ago
The price should be the price. Advertising any dollar amount less than what the customer actually has to pay should be fraud. Even taxes should be included in prices. And this has to be a top-down, legal thing, rather than something companies can opt-in to, because I think the business consequences of being the only one in your industry with transparent pricing would generally be lethal, and I've heard stories of restaurants going out of business due to including taxes in their prices. People want to pay less, and they'll go to the place they think will charge less. So this has to be enforced top-down.
- enraged_camel 3y ago
  >> Even taxes should be included in prices. Many people are dumb as bricks and hold insanely weird beliefs such as "if the displayed prices include tax, you will become desensitized and won't notice it if the government increases the tax rate!" or "I want to know exactly how much is going to the business and how much is going to the government!" Some US states have even codified this and explicitly ban tax-included pricing. This is also why people will fight tooth-and-nail against very obvious methods to drastically simplify things, such as by having the IRS handle your taxes for you and simply send you an "is this correct or do you need to make changes?" form every year.
  - xboxnolifes 3y ago
    > "if the displayed prices include tax, you will become desensitized and won't notice it if the government increases the tax rate!" Which is also a weird position to have, since nobody suggested getting rid of the price breakdown that gets shown at checkout. I'm sure companies would still love to show tax if half of their price is tax.
    - TearsInTheRain 3y ago
      I doubt they would... Its not going to make someone more likely to buy their product just because they know how much is going to tax.
  - stocknoob 3y ago

lotsofpulp 3y ago

If you search for a hotel room on Hilton/Marriott/Hyatt/IHG/etc website, that is how it is. After you select room type, it always shows you the total cost prominently. It is only travel agent/third party websites that try to hide total cost.

wintogreen74 3y ago
I think VRBO shows you the full cost for your visit (not in the nightly rate though!) while AirBnB shows you some subtotal presented as as the total cost, then when you start clicking through you get the "real" total cost. By that point you're already engaged though, so mission accomplished? I don't think I'd ever book a hotel through Airbnb - what's the benefit?
- brewdad 3y ago
  > I don't think I'd ever book a hotel through Airbnb - what's the benefit? Agreed. My usual mode of search is to go to hotels.com or booking.com depending on the destination and find out what's available and to price compare. Then I go to the actual hotel's site to book the reservation. I'll end up paying the same rate either way but having a direct booking reduces the chances of there being a problem down the line since there's no third party to shift blame or act as the middleman in resolving the issue.
EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 3y ago
That's because people want it sorted by price ascending, and you must be near the top of that list for the customer to even see the offering. So they show an artificially low price. At the hotel's own site, there is no such competition.
- lotsofpulp 3y ago
  Hotels are not choosing to not display the total price in third party websites, it is the third party website that is choosing to obfuscate prices.
  - listenallyall 3y ago
    But the hotel is the one charging a "resort fee" in the first place. If such a fee didn't exist, the 3rd party website wouldn't have anything to obfuscate.
    - figassis 3y ago
      I don’t think this is a valid argument. Airbnb specifically calls out including cleaning fees in these total, but this is something that affects small owners by default. The choice of cracking down on cleaning fees but not on resort fee? Purely on Airbnb. Moreover, when a host charges a cleaning see, it’s not the fee plus a tax on that fee, it’s just the fee. Hotels will tax you on each separate fee they add, so you really can’t trust that what you pay on Airbnb won’t balloon to 2x.
listenallyall 3y ago
Ehhh, hotel websites aren't all so clear either. Often there is a public rate and a member rate. Cancellable and non. With breakfast and without. And various confusing packages and offers for booking multiple nights or in advance, etc. Right now for the same room on the same dates at Hilton Waikiki Beach, Hilton.com shows 9 different rates (all of which don't directly include resort fee or taxes). And when a resort charges for parking, that fee is almost never included.
- lotsofpulp 3y ago
  Offering choices is not obfuscating the price. Member pricing requires you to login because of their arrangements with third party sellers requiring them to not “publicly” advertise lower prices. And as soon as you choose a room type, Hilton shows you the total price. Perhaps not the best they could do, but not worth complaining about in my opinion. Parking is often not included or desired, so it makes no sense to include that in the price, but it is listed prominently on the final page.
  - listenallyall 3y ago
    > And as soon as you choose a room type, Hilton shows you the total price No, it shows you 9 possible per-night prices, with a small note underneath about resort fee and tax. You'd have to select one to get to the total price, and you still have to figure out some confusing terms... what is "semi-flex" rate? Which is better, deluxe mountain view or a premium mountain view? And of course, the prices might all be different if you visit the site next week.
    - lotsofpulp 3y ago
      In the app, there is a “quick book” option, above the “more rates” option. Quick book option is the cancelable reservation with typical terms. It seems pretty easy for those that want a straightforward reservation to choose quick book, and for those that want more nuance, to choose more rates and figure out what they want.

xrd 3y ago

It's worse than this. Everything you note happens, but then you are so distracted by the price change that you forget to read all the other things, like there are now at least two classes of tickets, one of which is non-refundable and non-changeable under any circumstances. And, this isn't the "scam pioneering" airlines like Spirit, this happened to me with American. When I was so busy trying to figure out the total costs once I get out of Google Flights, then I neglected to read the fine print. I have a ticket I called to change two weeks ago, and was told if I don't take that flight, I lose the value completely with zero recourse. The airlines are actively waging war on their customers. It's awful.

kykeonaut 3y ago
I think it might be because most airlines don't make almost any profit on tickets themselves, but now rely on selling frequent flyer miles to companies to turn profit [0]. In other words, ticket purchasers are not their costumers anymore. [0] https://abroaden.substack.com/p/the-strange-way-airlines-are-actually https://abroaden.substack.com/p/the-strange-way-airlines-are...

mbg721 3y ago

If the FTC is getting involved, the first thing they should do is make hotels knock off the minibar nonsense. I shouldn't have to play stupid "Mnaaaah, you touched it!" "No, I didn't," games.

dheera 3y ago
Stay at cheaper hotels, they don't have the stupid sensors in the minibar and use real human eyes to check.
- smugma 3y ago
  Or nicer hotels where they ask “did you use anything from the minibar?”

tayo42 3y ago

Flights are pretty bad today with like 4 different tiers of economy.

joker_minmax 3y ago

Most super budget airlines do this but it's because they let you pare down by paying for random things. But even the non-budget ones like Delta save the taxes and 9/11 Fees for the end. Southwest is the only one that shows you the actual price.

brewdad 3y ago
Delta always shows the actual price on the search page. When you check out, they break down the costs by fare, taxes, fees etc. But if you look at the numbers, the flight that was listed on the search page as $250 gets broken down into a $160 fare, $80 in taxes and $10 in fees. It's still the same $250.
- joker_minmax 3y ago
  I flew Delta a few months ago and don't remember it being this simple, but I probably got confused because I did look at multiple airlines that day. Maybe it's different depending on the market?

dheera 3y ago

Yes, the "resort fee" is the most bullshit of them all. Any additional "fees" should be optional. I should be able to say "I'm not using the resort, I'm not paying this". If it's mandatory it should be priced in.

wintogreen74 3y ago
Part of that "resort fee" is typically Wifi, bottled water and a daily newspaper, or something with next to zero cost, something you don't really need and something you don't want.

Name_Chawps 3y ago

The price should be the price. Advertising any dollar amount less than what the customer actually has to pay should be fraud. Even taxes should be included in prices. And this has to be a top-down, legal thing, rather than something companies can opt-in to, because I think the business consequences of being the only one in your industry with transparent pricing would generally be lethal, and I've heard stories of restaurants going out of business due to including taxes in their prices. People want to pay less, and they'll go to the place they think will charge less. So this has to be enforced top-down.

enraged_camel 3y ago
>> Even taxes should be included in prices. Many people are dumb as bricks and hold insanely weird beliefs such as "if the displayed prices include tax, you will become desensitized and won't notice it if the government increases the tax rate!" or "I want to know exactly how much is going to the business and how much is going to the government!" Some US states have even codified this and explicitly ban tax-included pricing. This is also why people will fight tooth-and-nail against very obvious methods to drastically simplify things, such as by having the IRS handle your taxes for you and simply send you an "is this correct or do you need to make changes?" form every year.
- xboxnolifes 3y ago
  > "if the displayed prices include tax, you will become desensitized and won't notice it if the government increases the tax rate!" Which is also a weird position to have, since nobody suggested getting rid of the price breakdown that gets shown at checkout. I'm sure companies would still love to show tax if half of their price is tax.
  - TearsInTheRain 3y ago
    I doubt they would... Its not going to make someone more likely to buy their product just because they know how much is going to tax.
- stocknoob 3y ago