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I don't want to ruffle too many feathers, but I've developed a lot of animosity for cyclists; largely due to having interacted with them in parks, where they ca

I don't want to ruffle too many feathers, but I've developed a lot of animosity for cyclists; largely due to having interacted with them in parks, where they can be so incredibly selfish. Of course, I get some frustration when I'm stuck behind a bike, but I try to restrain it be safe. Meanwhile cyclists act like they rule the road. I've had them yell at me. They run pedestrians off the sidewalk. Cyclists aren't exactly "the good guys" much of the time.

delecti 3y ago
I think part of the difference is that one asshole driver makes people think "that guy was an asshole", but one asshole biker makes people think "bikers are assholes". There are certainly plenty of assholes in both groups, but American society is so car-centric that we don't generalize observations to the whole group of "drivers".
- P_I_Staker 3y ago
  No, no, no. I tend to think it's that cycling turns people into selfish jerks. I'm not sure exactly why. I think the main reason is that ethics in cycling has never really caught on as an ideology. So there's this sense of simultaneous anarchy and entitlement the permeates cycling culture. This leads them to thinking they have no responsibility to share the road with drivers, riding as slowly as possible, and not leaving room to pass. Then they go on mixed trails and suddenly the rules are different. Pedestrians must get out of the way, and they don't have to yield traffic laws. They're the ones that will be yelling threats! I really have to push back on this "criticizing bicycling is like racism" concept you introduced. First of all, people do generalize about cars being assholes. We talk all the time about it. Most of the violence is actually car on car... we just notice more the car vs. pedestrian matchups, as they can get pretty brutal.
blululu 3y ago
The other side of this is that most cyclists have had credible casual death threats delivered to them from passing motorists during their commute on a regular basis. Having someone swerve into your lane because they think vehicular manslaughter is cute at 8:45 in the morning will make anyone aggressive. Whenever you see a cyclist taking the full lane there is a good chance that they nearly go run off the road when someone tried to pass them with no margin, or they had a door opened into their face. The reality is cars are very dangerous and lightly regulated. A lot of people who are barely competent to operate heavy machinery drive 3 ton cars around without the proper training. I appreciate that you are restraining yourself in some frustrating situations - that is generally how a good driver behaves. Sadly you are getting the blow back from the actions of a lot of reckless and poorly qualified drivers making the road less safe for everyone.
- P_I_Staker 3y ago
  Lol, no that doesn't follow. Maybe if you mean like how people who experience abuse actually being somewhat more likely to perpetuate it (although contrary to popular opinion it's still quite unlikely to be passed on). I say this because I'm walking on paths far away from vehicles. We don't really tend to care the background of people who do bad things. If someone is treating you like garbage, you should be more respectful to others, not stoop to their level, and take it out on someone completely unrelated to the person you're mad at.
yowzadave 3y ago
I don't think a general "cyclists" category is a helpful way to classify people--it's not like the people who ride bikes have a particular character that can be distinguished from that of people using other vehicles; rather, they behave in the way that the infrastructure, culture, and laws around them influence them to act. There is an intersection directly in front of my house (also in NYC) that features a flexible barrier and signs telling people "No left turn". All day long, hundreds of times per hour, drivers roll right over the barrier (or swerve around it into the bike lane), turning left illegally, rather than going around the block as they are supposed to do. Should we cast moral blame on these drivers? Or are they simply average human beings? They are taking a dangerous shortcut because the intersection is poorly designed, because our culture encourages them to prioritize their own momentary convenience over pedestrian safety, and the enforcement is non-existent. If everyone is doing the same wrong thing, then something structural needs to change.
lamontcg 3y ago
> Of course, I get some frustration when I'm stuck behind a bike, but I try to restrain it be safe. I'm rarely ever stuck behind a bike for longer than 30 seconds. I don't get frustrated and I don't need to restrain myself in order to be safe. > I've had them yell at me. I've never had a cyclist yell at me. You might be doing something wrong.
- P_I_Staker 3y ago
  No, the issue is that there's mixed pedestrian and bike traffic. There's a lot of cyclists that just want to got full clip like the pedestrians aren't there. Now they're the ones shouting threats. I've been fucked with multiple times while walking too. I don't really mind waiting for cyclists, even on main roads, which is an unheard of ideology where I'm from. I'm just saying you can get a little impatient. It seems odd to me that you're bragging about not getting a little frustrated having to drive 5 mph for a long time.
  - lamontcg 3y ago
    Seems odd to me that you think I'm "bragging" or that 30 seconds is "a long time". Most bicyclists can also easily maintain more than 5mph, that's a pretty slow jog.
    - P_I_Staker 3y ago
      It’s less that and more getting high and mighty about me being slightly annoyed, as most drivers are.

delecti 3y ago

I think part of the difference is that one asshole driver makes people think "that guy was an asshole", but one asshole biker makes people think "bikers are assholes". There are certainly plenty of assholes in both groups, but American society is so car-centric that we don't generalize observations to the whole group of "drivers".

P_I_Staker 3y ago
No, no, no. I tend to think it's that cycling turns people into selfish jerks. I'm not sure exactly why. I think the main reason is that ethics in cycling has never really caught on as an ideology. So there's this sense of simultaneous anarchy and entitlement the permeates cycling culture. This leads them to thinking they have no responsibility to share the road with drivers, riding as slowly as possible, and not leaving room to pass. Then they go on mixed trails and suddenly the rules are different. Pedestrians must get out of the way, and they don't have to yield traffic laws. They're the ones that will be yelling threats! I really have to push back on this "criticizing bicycling is like racism" concept you introduced. First of all, people do generalize about cars being assholes. We talk all the time about it. Most of the violence is actually car on car... we just notice more the car vs. pedestrian matchups, as they can get pretty brutal.

blululu 3y ago

The other side of this is that most cyclists have had credible casual death threats delivered to them from passing motorists during their commute on a regular basis. Having someone swerve into your lane because they think vehicular manslaughter is cute at 8:45 in the morning will make anyone aggressive. Whenever you see a cyclist taking the full lane there is a good chance that they nearly go run off the road when someone tried to pass them with no margin, or they had a door opened into their face. The reality is cars are very dangerous and lightly regulated. A lot of people who are barely competent to operate heavy machinery drive 3 ton cars around without the proper training. I appreciate that you are restraining yourself in some frustrating situations - that is generally how a good driver behaves. Sadly you are getting the blow back from the actions of a lot of reckless and poorly qualified drivers making the road less safe for everyone.

P_I_Staker 3y ago
Lol, no that doesn't follow. Maybe if you mean like how people who experience abuse actually being somewhat more likely to perpetuate it (although contrary to popular opinion it's still quite unlikely to be passed on). I say this because I'm walking on paths far away from vehicles. We don't really tend to care the background of people who do bad things. If someone is treating you like garbage, you should be more respectful to others, not stoop to their level, and take it out on someone completely unrelated to the person you're mad at.

yowzadave 3y ago

I don't think a general "cyclists" category is a helpful way to classify people--it's not like the people who ride bikes have a particular character that can be distinguished from that of people using other vehicles; rather, they behave in the way that the infrastructure, culture, and laws around them influence them to act. There is an intersection directly in front of my house (also in NYC) that features a flexible barrier and signs telling people "No left turn". All day long, hundreds of times per hour, drivers roll right over the barrier (or swerve around it into the bike lane), turning left illegally, rather than going around the block as they are supposed to do. Should we cast moral blame on these drivers? Or are they simply average human beings? They are taking a dangerous shortcut because the intersection is poorly designed, because our culture encourages them to prioritize their own momentary convenience over pedestrian safety, and the enforcement is non-existent. If everyone is doing the same wrong thing, then something structural needs to change.

lamontcg 3y ago

> Of course, I get some frustration when I'm stuck behind a bike, but I try to restrain it be safe. I'm rarely ever stuck behind a bike for longer than 30 seconds. I don't get frustrated and I don't need to restrain myself in order to be safe. > I've had them yell at me. I've never had a cyclist yell at me. You might be doing something wrong.

P_I_Staker 3y ago
No, the issue is that there's mixed pedestrian and bike traffic. There's a lot of cyclists that just want to got full clip like the pedestrians aren't there. Now they're the ones shouting threats. I've been fucked with multiple times while walking too. I don't really mind waiting for cyclists, even on main roads, which is an unheard of ideology where I'm from. I'm just saying you can get a little impatient. It seems odd to me that you're bragging about not getting a little frustrated having to drive 5 mph for a long time.
- lamontcg 3y ago
  Seems odd to me that you think I'm "bragging" or that 30 seconds is "a long time". Most bicyclists can also easily maintain more than 5mph, that's a pretty slow jog.
  - P_I_Staker 3y ago
    It’s less that and more getting high and mighty about me being slightly annoyed, as most drivers are.