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I live in NYC and the situation with ebikes is very different from many other parts of America. We have a huge population of delivery drivers on ebikes (and al

I live in NYC and the situation with ebikes is very different from many other parts of America. We have a huge population of delivery drivers on ebikes (and also elec/gas scooters). They ride on sidewalks, against traffic and constantly run stop signs and red lights. They're not just a danger to pedestrians, but also creating an awful risk for themselves (I just saw one hit by a car next to Barclays in BK this weekend). I'm an avid biker and have slow rolled my way thru many stop signs, but I've never put myself or other pedestrians at risk in the manner as many ebikes riders do. The NYPD has ignored this problem, as they do most quality of life issues in the city. I'm not sure how we resolve it but there does need to be dialog among everyone to fix this issue. This is not just an issue of car vs. bike, its an issue of pedestrian safety too.

mholm 3y ago
I've lived in a few cities over the past two years, and am currently in NYC and you're right on the money. E-bikes are a very positive change in every other city. E-bikes in NYC have gone too far. I was riding the bus to Red Hook and the driver had to slow down several times because delivery riders were swerving between the sidewalk, road, and bike path at any given many moment. Stop signs didn't even exist to them.
- mistrial9 3y ago
  at the same time, other cultures around the world with big, urban centers have adopted to the more chaotic traffic. Big, safe, 4-wheel vehicles have brought gridlock to the core city, and with that is waste. Its a challenge for sure, but strict traffic enforcement in a 1960s way seems gone in 2023.
the_snooze 3y ago
I wish states would regulate Class 2+ e-bikes as motor vehicles restricted to motorways only. E-bikes with throttles (instead of just pedal assist) are just motorcycles with electric motors and should be regulated accordingly. They have no business being on trails and sidewalks.
- nxx788 3y ago
  [dead]
- Moto7451 3y ago
  I can’t give a blanket statement for the US, but in the cities I’ve lived in, cyclists of all powertrain types are supposed to be on the street and not the sidewalk. When I was a bike commuter, I’d on rare occasion take a stretch of sidewalk, slowly, to avoid road construction and hazards I just didn’t feel safe traversing. I would not bother a single pedestrian and was probably coasting at the speed of a jogger/runner. None the less I’d still get yelled at by cops to get on the road. Meanwhile cops do nothing when, at least in Downtown LA, cyclists are running red lights. I’m not an anti-car/bikes-only person but we do need better awareness for all of the rules of the road for cycles and add protected bike lanes. The situation now with a lack of knowledge, blatant violation of stop signs and lights by bicyclists and motorists, and in some cases conflicting and incompatible stop light rules, is complete madness.
  - soco 3y ago
    It might be only my impression but reckless bike driving didn't start with e-bikes. There were always quite a few bikers endangering traffic and themselves, and this only skyrocketed now when bikes started driving constantly at motor powered speeds (and increased weight too)
  - antisthenes 3y ago
    > I can’t give a blanket statement for the US, but in the cities I’ve lived in, cyclists of all powertrain types are supposed to be on the street and not the sidewalk. Yes, and once you realize that 99.9% of the US lacks any kind of safety infrastructure for bikes, you begin to understand how utterly insane and hostile it is to anything but cars. Putting 15mph bikes next to 45mph 2-ton cars and then slapping a sign like "bikes may use full lane" is a giant middle finger to current and future bike users.
    - ryandrake 3y ago
      It's a middle finger to everyone, bicyclists and motorists. It's insane that we've normalized the idea of having a single surface shared between 45mph and 15mph vehicles.
jakelazaroff 3y ago
E-bike and scooter riders are not “creating an awful risk for themselves”. Cars are creating that risk for them. And I don’t get it: you say e-bike drivers “constantly run stop signs”, but then a paragraph later you say that you also often run stop signs! What should I take away from this? That we should selectively enforce traffic laws against e-bikes but not against you?
- schnable 3y ago
  Yes, the e-bike drivers are creating the risk by riding against traffic and in crosswalks where turning traffic can't see them coming. This would be an issue even if all the other traffic was bikes and not cars -- though admittedly not as deadly.
  - jakelazaroff 3y ago
    They ride against traffic because most streets in NYC are one-way to accommodate cars.
- ryantgtg 3y ago
  Imagine, if you will, looking both ways and slowly rolling through a stop sign; and also imagine running a stop sign at full speed and not looking. Not all running stop signs are equal. It's not the law that matters. Also, cars aren't creating the risk. Drivers are.
  - nativeit 3y ago
    Guns don’t kill people either, amirite?
- hooverd 3y ago
  Google Idaho stop. If anything it's pedestrians who are failing to look out for cyclists at intersections.
  - mahkeiro 3y ago
guardiangod 3y ago
I live in NYC and I agree with you. I ride bikes for my entire life in different cities and I've never seen so many bikers with a death wish. They dash in between traffic and blatantly ignore any applicable traffic rule. Not even bikers in India and China dare to ride this fast in traffic. I just want to add that the food delivery bikers don't ride on the sidewalks solely because they can't go fast on the poorly maintained NYC sidewalks. If they could they would go at 30 miles/hour on sidewalks. EDIT: I am working in an office at Time Square right now. I just looked down the window and counted 2 delivery bikers going at ~15miles/h on the sidewalk (The buildings are new and their developers fixed the sidewalk.)
- j16sdiz 3y ago
  Maybe its "food delivery" pushing for those aggressive behaviour, not e-bike.
  - throw4847285 3y ago
    Exactly. Those e-bike delivery drivers are directly incentivized by Grubhub and Doordash to put themselves at risk. The ever increasing demand for instantly delivered meals and the unscrupulousness of those companies has created the present circumstances, and much as it annoys me that I have to be more cautious when walking around, I don't blame the gig workers barely eking out a living.
    - alexpetralia 3y ago
      If you fine the companies, the behavior would stop very quickly.
    - Gud 3y ago
      They are incentivized because the NYC is designed around cars, not (e-)bikes. If non-permit holding cars were banned from the city center and bikes given an equal share of space, the landscape would quickly change.
      - 3y ago
droopyEyelids 3y ago
Those problems are real and valid, but they seem to be downstream of the problem the article is about: roads are unsafe for cyclists. I don't have a study proving it, but it seems plausible personal mobility device riders would be less likely to ride on sidewalks etc if they could safely ride on the street.
- fnimick 3y ago
  This is me. I occasionally ride my bicycles (acoustic and electric) on sidewalks. I do so at walking pace, though. Everywhere you see a cyclist on a sidewalk, that's a sign that the road isn't safe enough. If the road were safe, don't you think they'd prefer not worrying about pedestrians?
- ipqk 3y ago
  That would help a little bit, but most of the illegal biking by ebikes is done to save their time not because they're feel unsafe. Things like salmoning (going wrong way in an already existing bike line); careening down the sidewalk the last few feet to get to restaurant (instead of walking the bike like they're supposed to; running red lights; gas mopeds illegally using a bike lane; etc. Even the most protected bike lines everywhere wouldn't fix the above.
ipqk 3y ago
The problem with ebikes/scooters in NYC is that I no longer feel safe on sidewalks. 5 years ago, I always felt safe on sidewalks but would always cross roads carefully (I have a rule about never looking at my phone when walking across a road). But now on sidewalks e-bikes will zoom past me from behind at fast speeds startling me. I fucking hate it. I can no longer walk in peace in the city anymore.
nxx788 3y ago
[dead]
hooverd 3y ago
I think drivers and bike riders agree that NYCs pedestrians are always walking in the road and bike lane. Or maybe it's just easier to hurl insults at pedestrians than it is drivers.
alamortsubite 3y ago
I agree 100% with your complaints about delivery e-bikers in the city. However, while "New York" is in the submission's title, if you read the articles they don't discuss issues at all specific to NYC.
localbolu 3y ago
The situation on NYC's bridges (particularly between Manhattan and Brooklyn/Queens) is egregious. I see drivers on gas/electric scooters recklessly overtake on the narrowest parts of the Queensboro or Williamsburg bridge at well above the legal speed limit.
P_I_Staker 3y ago
I don't want to ruffle too many feathers, but I've developed a lot of animosity for cyclists; largely due to having interacted with them in parks, where they can be so incredibly selfish. Of course, I get some frustration when I'm stuck behind a bike, but I try to restrain it be safe. Meanwhile cyclists act like they rule the road. I've had them yell at me. They run pedestrians off the sidewalk. Cyclists aren't exactly "the good guys" much of the time.
- delecti 3y ago
  I think part of the difference is that one asshole driver makes people think "that guy was an asshole", but one asshole biker makes people think "bikers are assholes". There are certainly plenty of assholes in both groups, but American society is so car-centric that we don't generalize observations to the whole group of "drivers".
  - P_I_Staker 3y ago
    No, no, no. I tend to think it's that cycling turns people into selfish jerks. I'm not sure exactly why. I think the main reason is that ethics in cycling has never really caught on as an ideology. So there's this sense of simultaneous anarchy and entitlement the permeates cycling culture. This leads them to thinking they have no responsibility to share the road with drivers, riding as slowly as possible, and not leaving room to pass. Then they go on mixed trails and suddenly the rules are different. Pedestrians must get out of the way, and they don't have to yield traffic laws. They're the ones that will be yelling threats! I really have to push back on this "criticizing bicycling is like racism" concept you introduced. First of all, people do generalize about cars being assholes. We talk all the time about it. Most of the violence is actually car on car... we just notice more the car vs. pedestrian matchups, as they can get pretty brutal.
- blululu 3y ago
  The other side of this is that most cyclists have had credible casual death threats delivered to them from passing motorists during their commute on a regular basis. Having someone swerve into your lane because they think vehicular manslaughter is cute at 8:45 in the morning will make anyone aggressive. Whenever you see a cyclist taking the full lane there is a good chance that they nearly go run off the road when someone tried to pass them with no margin, or they had a door opened into their face. The reality is cars are very dangerous and lightly regulated. A lot of people who are barely competent to operate heavy machinery drive 3 ton cars around without the proper training. I appreciate that you are restraining yourself in some frustrating situations - that is generally how a good driver behaves. Sadly you are getting the blow back from the actions of a lot of reckless and poorly qualified drivers making the road less safe for everyone.
horns4lyfe 3y ago
Maybe calling NYPD fascist and racist for enforcing laws around quality of life issues isn’t the best way forward.
MisterTea 3y ago
Yup. These morons also ride on the greenway, a bike and pedestrian path, on gas powered scooters weighing hundreds of pounds to do deliveries. They also ride the larger gas and e-scooters in bike lanes. Sidewalk riding is infuriating as they have plenty of street by me but nah, sidewalk it is! I was almost hit from behind walking home from the store on a sidewalk after some dick rode up from behind me on a big e-scooter - you cant hear them coming. And never mind the number of near misses Ive witnessed from complete disregard of anyone's safety. Cops don't care at all. I mean all the illegally plated cars and out of control street racing is also ignored so whatever. Fuck the pedestrians and cyclists - motorists rule the pavement regardless the number of wheels. Solutions cant be talked about until the morons in city hall start giving a shit and doing something about the useless cops.
JohnFen 3y ago
My city is substantially smaller than NYC, and for the most part delivery drivers aren't using electric bikes. But we otherwise have all of these same issues from ordinary people riding these things. It's really turned my attitude about e-bikes. At first, I thought they were a great idea. Now, however, they've proven to be a very serious hazard to others. I'd love to see them classified, licensed, and regulated as scooters are.
0xBDB 3y ago
I nearly got nailed by an e-bike the last time I was in Manhattan, going against traffic in a pedestrian lane. They seem to have proliferated in the last year or so. The trouble seems to be that people are trying to maintain a biker's traditional laissez-faire attitude toward traffic laws on a vehicle that can do 30+ mph and accelerate with electric torque.
UtopiaPunk 3y ago
Counterpoint: When people are riding ebikes with car traffic instead of pedestrian traffic, the bike riders are getting killed. So while I don't exactly disagree with you that ebikes need to be separated from pedestrians or at least slow down significantly when that is not possible, I do very much disagree with the framing that the problem is on the individuals riding the ebikes. I don't live in NYC, and while I'm sure it's bike infrastructure is better than many places in the USA, I can confidently say that this country needs much better bike infrastructure. We should build out many more lanes dedicated to bicycles.
jdjdjdhhd 3y ago
We need better roads for ebikes

mholm 3y ago

I've lived in a few cities over the past two years, and am currently in NYC and you're right on the money. E-bikes are a very positive change in every other city. E-bikes in NYC have gone too far. I was riding the bus to Red Hook and the driver had to slow down several times because delivery riders were swerving between the sidewalk, road, and bike path at any given many moment. Stop signs didn't even exist to them.

mistrial9 3y ago
at the same time, other cultures around the world with big, urban centers have adopted to the more chaotic traffic. Big, safe, 4-wheel vehicles have brought gridlock to the core city, and with that is waste. Its a challenge for sure, but strict traffic enforcement in a 1960s way seems gone in 2023.

the_snooze 3y ago

I wish states would regulate Class 2+ e-bikes as motor vehicles restricted to motorways only. E-bikes with throttles (instead of just pedal assist) are just motorcycles with electric motors and should be regulated accordingly. They have no business being on trails and sidewalks.

nxx788 3y ago
[dead]
Moto7451 3y ago
I can’t give a blanket statement for the US, but in the cities I’ve lived in, cyclists of all powertrain types are supposed to be on the street and not the sidewalk. When I was a bike commuter, I’d on rare occasion take a stretch of sidewalk, slowly, to avoid road construction and hazards I just didn’t feel safe traversing. I would not bother a single pedestrian and was probably coasting at the speed of a jogger/runner. None the less I’d still get yelled at by cops to get on the road. Meanwhile cops do nothing when, at least in Downtown LA, cyclists are running red lights. I’m not an anti-car/bikes-only person but we do need better awareness for all of the rules of the road for cycles and add protected bike lanes. The situation now with a lack of knowledge, blatant violation of stop signs and lights by bicyclists and motorists, and in some cases conflicting and incompatible stop light rules, is complete madness.
- soco 3y ago
  It might be only my impression but reckless bike driving didn't start with e-bikes. There were always quite a few bikers endangering traffic and themselves, and this only skyrocketed now when bikes started driving constantly at motor powered speeds (and increased weight too)
- antisthenes 3y ago
  > I can’t give a blanket statement for the US, but in the cities I’ve lived in, cyclists of all powertrain types are supposed to be on the street and not the sidewalk. Yes, and once you realize that 99.9% of the US lacks any kind of safety infrastructure for bikes, you begin to understand how utterly insane and hostile it is to anything but cars. Putting 15mph bikes next to 45mph 2-ton cars and then slapping a sign like "bikes may use full lane" is a giant middle finger to current and future bike users.
  - ryandrake 3y ago
    It's a middle finger to everyone, bicyclists and motorists. It's insane that we've normalized the idea of having a single surface shared between 45mph and 15mph vehicles.

jakelazaroff 3y ago

E-bike and scooter riders are not “creating an awful risk for themselves”. Cars are creating that risk for them. And I don’t get it: you say e-bike drivers “constantly run stop signs”, but then a paragraph later you say that you also often run stop signs! What should I take away from this? That we should selectively enforce traffic laws against e-bikes but not against you?

schnable 3y ago
Yes, the e-bike drivers are creating the risk by riding against traffic and in crosswalks where turning traffic can't see them coming. This would be an issue even if all the other traffic was bikes and not cars -- though admittedly not as deadly.
- jakelazaroff 3y ago
  They ride against traffic because most streets in NYC are one-way to accommodate cars.
ryantgtg 3y ago
Imagine, if you will, looking both ways and slowly rolling through a stop sign; and also imagine running a stop sign at full speed and not looking. Not all running stop signs are equal. It's not the law that matters. Also, cars aren't creating the risk. Drivers are.
- nativeit 3y ago
  Guns don’t kill people either, amirite?
hooverd 3y ago
Google Idaho stop. If anything it's pedestrians who are failing to look out for cyclists at intersections.
- mahkeiro 3y ago

guardiangod 3y ago

I live in NYC and I agree with you. I ride bikes for my entire life in different cities and I've never seen so many bikers with a death wish. They dash in between traffic and blatantly ignore any applicable traffic rule. Not even bikers in India and China dare to ride this fast in traffic. I just want to add that the food delivery bikers don't ride on the sidewalks solely because they can't go fast on the poorly maintained NYC sidewalks. If they could they would go at 30 miles/hour on sidewalks. EDIT: I am working in an office at Time Square right now. I just looked down the window and counted 2 delivery bikers going at ~15miles/h on the sidewalk (The buildings are new and their developers fixed the sidewalk.)

j16sdiz 3y ago
Maybe its "food delivery" pushing for those aggressive behaviour, not e-bike.
- throw4847285 3y ago
  Exactly. Those e-bike delivery drivers are directly incentivized by Grubhub and Doordash to put themselves at risk. The ever increasing demand for instantly delivered meals and the unscrupulousness of those companies has created the present circumstances, and much as it annoys me that I have to be more cautious when walking around, I don't blame the gig workers barely eking out a living.
  - alexpetralia 3y ago
    If you fine the companies, the behavior would stop very quickly.
  - Gud 3y ago
    They are incentivized because the NYC is designed around cars, not (e-)bikes. If non-permit holding cars were banned from the city center and bikes given an equal share of space, the landscape would quickly change.
    - 3y ago

droopyEyelids 3y ago

Those problems are real and valid, but they seem to be downstream of the problem the article is about: roads are unsafe for cyclists. I don't have a study proving it, but it seems plausible personal mobility device riders would be less likely to ride on sidewalks etc if they could safely ride on the street.

fnimick 3y ago
This is me. I occasionally ride my bicycles (acoustic and electric) on sidewalks. I do so at walking pace, though. Everywhere you see a cyclist on a sidewalk, that's a sign that the road isn't safe enough. If the road were safe, don't you think they'd prefer not worrying about pedestrians?
ipqk 3y ago
That would help a little bit, but most of the illegal biking by ebikes is done to save their time not because they're feel unsafe. Things like salmoning (going wrong way in an already existing bike line); careening down the sidewalk the last few feet to get to restaurant (instead of walking the bike like they're supposed to; running red lights; gas mopeds illegally using a bike lane; etc. Even the most protected bike lines everywhere wouldn't fix the above.

ipqk 3y ago

The problem with ebikes/scooters in NYC is that I no longer feel safe on sidewalks. 5 years ago, I always felt safe on sidewalks but would always cross roads carefully (I have a rule about never looking at my phone when walking across a road). But now on sidewalks e-bikes will zoom past me from behind at fast speeds startling me. I fucking hate it. I can no longer walk in peace in the city anymore.

nxx788 3y ago

[dead]

hooverd 3y ago

I think drivers and bike riders agree that NYCs pedestrians are always walking in the road and bike lane. Or maybe it's just easier to hurl insults at pedestrians than it is drivers.

alamortsubite 3y ago

I agree 100% with your complaints about delivery e-bikers in the city. However, while "New York" is in the submission's title, if you read the articles they don't discuss issues at all specific to NYC.

localbolu 3y ago

The situation on NYC's bridges (particularly between Manhattan and Brooklyn/Queens) is egregious. I see drivers on gas/electric scooters recklessly overtake on the narrowest parts of the Queensboro or Williamsburg bridge at well above the legal speed limit.

P_I_Staker 3y ago

I don't want to ruffle too many feathers, but I've developed a lot of animosity for cyclists; largely due to having interacted with them in parks, where they can be so incredibly selfish. Of course, I get some frustration when I'm stuck behind a bike, but I try to restrain it be safe. Meanwhile cyclists act like they rule the road. I've had them yell at me. They run pedestrians off the sidewalk. Cyclists aren't exactly "the good guys" much of the time.

delecti 3y ago
I think part of the difference is that one asshole driver makes people think "that guy was an asshole", but one asshole biker makes people think "bikers are assholes". There are certainly plenty of assholes in both groups, but American society is so car-centric that we don't generalize observations to the whole group of "drivers".
- P_I_Staker 3y ago
  No, no, no. I tend to think it's that cycling turns people into selfish jerks. I'm not sure exactly why. I think the main reason is that ethics in cycling has never really caught on as an ideology. So there's this sense of simultaneous anarchy and entitlement the permeates cycling culture. This leads them to thinking they have no responsibility to share the road with drivers, riding as slowly as possible, and not leaving room to pass. Then they go on mixed trails and suddenly the rules are different. Pedestrians must get out of the way, and they don't have to yield traffic laws. They're the ones that will be yelling threats! I really have to push back on this "criticizing bicycling is like racism" concept you introduced. First of all, people do generalize about cars being assholes. We talk all the time about it. Most of the violence is actually car on car... we just notice more the car vs. pedestrian matchups, as they can get pretty brutal.
blululu 3y ago
The other side of this is that most cyclists have had credible casual death threats delivered to them from passing motorists during their commute on a regular basis. Having someone swerve into your lane because they think vehicular manslaughter is cute at 8:45 in the morning will make anyone aggressive. Whenever you see a cyclist taking the full lane there is a good chance that they nearly go run off the road when someone tried to pass them with no margin, or they had a door opened into their face. The reality is cars are very dangerous and lightly regulated. A lot of people who are barely competent to operate heavy machinery drive 3 ton cars around without the proper training. I appreciate that you are restraining yourself in some frustrating situations - that is generally how a good driver behaves. Sadly you are getting the blow back from the actions of a lot of reckless and poorly qualified drivers making the road less safe for everyone.

horns4lyfe 3y ago

Maybe calling NYPD fascist and racist for enforcing laws around quality of life issues isn’t the best way forward.

MisterTea 3y ago

Yup. These morons also ride on the greenway, a bike and pedestrian path, on gas powered scooters weighing hundreds of pounds to do deliveries. They also ride the larger gas and e-scooters in bike lanes. Sidewalk riding is infuriating as they have plenty of street by me but nah, sidewalk it is! I was almost hit from behind walking home from the store on a sidewalk after some dick rode up from behind me on a big e-scooter - you cant hear them coming. And never mind the number of near misses Ive witnessed from complete disregard of anyone's safety. Cops don't care at all. I mean all the illegally plated cars and out of control street racing is also ignored so whatever. Fuck the pedestrians and cyclists - motorists rule the pavement regardless the number of wheels. Solutions cant be talked about until the morons in city hall start giving a shit and doing something about the useless cops.

JohnFen 3y ago

My city is substantially smaller than NYC, and for the most part delivery drivers aren't using electric bikes. But we otherwise have all of these same issues from ordinary people riding these things. It's really turned my attitude about e-bikes. At first, I thought they were a great idea. Now, however, they've proven to be a very serious hazard to others. I'd love to see them classified, licensed, and regulated as scooters are.

0xBDB 3y ago

I nearly got nailed by an e-bike the last time I was in Manhattan, going against traffic in a pedestrian lane. They seem to have proliferated in the last year or so. The trouble seems to be that people are trying to maintain a biker's traditional laissez-faire attitude toward traffic laws on a vehicle that can do 30+ mph and accelerate with electric torque.

UtopiaPunk 3y ago

Counterpoint: When people are riding ebikes with car traffic instead of pedestrian traffic, the bike riders are getting killed. So while I don't exactly disagree with you that ebikes need to be separated from pedestrians or at least slow down significantly when that is not possible, I do very much disagree with the framing that the problem is on the individuals riding the ebikes. I don't live in NYC, and while I'm sure it's bike infrastructure is better than many places in the USA, I can confidently say that this country needs much better bike infrastructure. We should build out many more lanes dedicated to bicycles.

jdjdjdhhd 3y ago

We need better roads for ebikes