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I didn’t know AirBnB could be used to book hotels, but yes resort fees are a scam. The recent AG settlement with Marriott is a complete joke and accomplished no

I didn’t know AirBnB could be used to book hotels, but yes resort fees are a scam. The recent AG settlement with Marriott is a complete joke and accomplished nothing of value. Ideally banks would identify it as fraud and charge them all back automatically but they rely on co-branded credit cards (especially Chase and AMEX). Perhaps Discover and Citibank would like to start a hilarious proxy war using Marriott, Hilton and IHG as pawns?

lotsofpulp 3y ago
I think the resort fee is a way to get around either lodging taxes or franchise royalties, as they might specifically apply to lodging portion of a hotel room’s price. Hotel room night tax rates are almost always much higher than general sales tax rates. The hotel might pocket more if they sell a room for $200 + hotel tax + $50 resort fee + sales tax rather than $250 + hotel tax.
- tehwebguy 3y ago
  So they’re not just scamming consumers, they’re scamming the franchisor and the tax collecting agencies they are subject to as well.
  - lotsofpulp 3y ago
    The consumer would be paying less tax. For example, if lodging taxes are 18% and sales tax is 7%, then you would avoid paying an extra 11% on the room rate. Of course, the calculation is not that clean, since maybe the resort fee is also used to obfuscate prices which results in people paying more. As for the tax collector, resort fees and whatnot have been commonplace for the 20+ years of my adult life, so either the tax collector is a corrupt idiot, or the hotels have a legitimate claim that the entire cost of staying at a hotel is not subject to lodging taxes.
- i_am_jl 3y ago
  You could be right, but I think you're missing the point. The complaint is not that the fee is problematic in and of itself, it's that the fee isn't revealed until after your booking is made, usually not until check-in.
  - lotsofpulp 3y ago
    The post I responded was complaining about resort fees in general.
    - i_am_jl 3y ago
      No, that comment called resort fees a scam. Maybe I'm wrong, I don't want to put words in that user's mouth, but my interpretation was that they'd called resort fees are a scam because they only show up after you've booked your stay. That's the scammy/fraudy/dishonest part of the transaction; without it I'm not sure there's anything to complain about.
      - tehwebguy 3y ago
        I'm sure some hotels only show you the resort fee after you've booked but I'm not only talking about that: I consider them a scam in concept because it is a fee that hotels allege covers specific things (parking, wifi, pool access & other amenities) but the fee is not optional, it cannot be avoided even if you won't be parking or using the pool. But I also consider them a scam in practice because hotels & OTAs go to such lengths to hide them during the search process. By advertising a rate that doesn't include these fees they are advertising a rate that simply doesn't exist. It is (sadly) the default practice in the states to advertise the price of basically everything pre-tax, so at a minimum consumers here expect for tax to be added (though folks new to booking a hotel probably don't know about occupancy taxes). But for a hotel or OTA to advertise 2 different hotels, one with a $30 / night resort fee, as both being $199 / night is also a scam. Hotels do this for banquet & convention services as well. Everything is "plus plus", meaning plus tax plus a service fee %, usually 20% in my experience. Your $10k banquet hall rental is really $13k if the tax on it is 10%.
- lyrrad 3y ago
  In my experience, resort fees in Las Vegas are still subject to the same lodging tax as the rest of the room rate. My understanding is that when you book through an online travel agent, the regular room rate is subject to a commission of up to 30%, while the resort/destination fee is not. That's why many hotel chains provide incentives for customers to book directly with them. I've heard in some jurisdictions outside of the US, hotels are required to show the total price including all taxes and fees when advertising rates. So if AirBnb isn't doing this, it could be a problem.
  - lotsofpulp 3y ago
    Yes, reducing the commissionable price could be yet another reason. Airbnb is not the hotel though, so whatever legislation would have to specify that travel agents also advertise total costs.
- reaperducer 3y ago
  I think the resort fee is a way to get around either lodging taxes or franchise royalties, as they might specifically apply to lodging portion of a hotel room’s price. According to the newspapers in Las Vegas, which report on this frequently since it's the resort fee capitol of the world, the resort fees are used to lower the base price of the hotel rooms so they look more attractive on third-party web sites. Resort fees are still taxable.

lotsofpulp 3y ago

I think the resort fee is a way to get around either lodging taxes or franchise royalties, as they might specifically apply to lodging portion of a hotel room’s price. Hotel room night tax rates are almost always much higher than general sales tax rates. The hotel might pocket more if they sell a room for $200 + hotel tax + $50 resort fee + sales tax rather than $250 + hotel tax.

tehwebguy 3y ago
So they’re not just scamming consumers, they’re scamming the franchisor and the tax collecting agencies they are subject to as well.
- lotsofpulp 3y ago
  The consumer would be paying less tax. For example, if lodging taxes are 18% and sales tax is 7%, then you would avoid paying an extra 11% on the room rate. Of course, the calculation is not that clean, since maybe the resort fee is also used to obfuscate prices which results in people paying more. As for the tax collector, resort fees and whatnot have been commonplace for the 20+ years of my adult life, so either the tax collector is a corrupt idiot, or the hotels have a legitimate claim that the entire cost of staying at a hotel is not subject to lodging taxes.
i_am_jl 3y ago
You could be right, but I think you're missing the point. The complaint is not that the fee is problematic in and of itself, it's that the fee isn't revealed until after your booking is made, usually not until check-in.
- lotsofpulp 3y ago
  The post I responded was complaining about resort fees in general.
  - i_am_jl 3y ago
    No, that comment called resort fees a scam. Maybe I'm wrong, I don't want to put words in that user's mouth, but my interpretation was that they'd called resort fees are a scam because they only show up after you've booked your stay. That's the scammy/fraudy/dishonest part of the transaction; without it I'm not sure there's anything to complain about.
    - tehwebguy 3y ago
      I'm sure some hotels only show you the resort fee after you've booked but I'm not only talking about that: I consider them a scam in concept because it is a fee that hotels allege covers specific things (parking, wifi, pool access & other amenities) but the fee is not optional, it cannot be avoided even if you won't be parking or using the pool. But I also consider them a scam in practice because hotels & OTAs go to such lengths to hide them during the search process. By advertising a rate that doesn't include these fees they are advertising a rate that simply doesn't exist. It is (sadly) the default practice in the states to advertise the price of basically everything pre-tax, so at a minimum consumers here expect for tax to be added (though folks new to booking a hotel probably don't know about occupancy taxes). But for a hotel or OTA to advertise 2 different hotels, one with a $30 / night resort fee, as both being $199 / night is also a scam. Hotels do this for banquet & convention services as well. Everything is "plus plus", meaning plus tax plus a service fee %, usually 20% in my experience. Your $10k banquet hall rental is really $13k if the tax on it is 10%.
lyrrad 3y ago
In my experience, resort fees in Las Vegas are still subject to the same lodging tax as the rest of the room rate. My understanding is that when you book through an online travel agent, the regular room rate is subject to a commission of up to 30%, while the resort/destination fee is not. That's why many hotel chains provide incentives for customers to book directly with them. I've heard in some jurisdictions outside of the US, hotels are required to show the total price including all taxes and fees when advertising rates. So if AirBnb isn't doing this, it could be a problem.
- lotsofpulp 3y ago
  Yes, reducing the commissionable price could be yet another reason. Airbnb is not the hotel though, so whatever legislation would have to specify that travel agents also advertise total costs.
reaperducer 3y ago
I think the resort fee is a way to get around either lodging taxes or franchise royalties, as they might specifically apply to lodging portion of a hotel room’s price. According to the newspapers in Las Vegas, which report on this frequently since it's the resort fee capitol of the world, the resort fees are used to lower the base price of the hotel rooms so they look more attractive on third-party web sites. Resort fees are still taxable.