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Yeah, I'm going to say "no" in response to your "no", sorry. For one, I've seen plenty of non-motorized bikes go over 20mph in bikes lanes, particularly down h

Yeah, I'm going to say "no" in response to your "no", sorry. For one, I've seen plenty of non-motorized bikes go over 20mph in bikes lanes, particularly down hills. > zooming by me and my infant in a stroller at speeds that are too dangerous to be on paths To be clear: you and your infant are not sharing the path with this bike, right? It's on a bike path, you're on a pedestrian path. I don't understand what a "pedestrian bike path" is. If a car drives past the sidewalk at 25mph do you have a similar reaction? If not, why not? And just so we don't get too many "won't somebody please think of the children!" accusations thrown around: I own a cargo e-bike and I take my kids to school on it every day, via a separated bike path. If I were required to bike on the road instead I simply wouldn't do it, it's far too dangerous. So we'd probably end up having to get a car and if, heaven forbid, I were to get in any kind of an accident a pedestrian would be considerably worse off. EDIT: From the replies I can see many cities do have shared paths so I take that back. Seems like a very unwise choice and goes back to the original point: 90+% of of road space being dedicated to cars is the core problem, not bikers. And plenty of non-motorized bikers travel at unsafe speeds so I maintain a blanket ban on e-bikes feels like it isn't coming from anywhere logical.

throw1234651234 3y ago
I was just in NYC (not a resident, so it's fresh). You cross a "bike" path any time you cross a street. On the West side "health run path thing" there isn't enough space for both bikes and pedestrians and there is constantly a chance of collision. It's pretty unsafe. Guessing it's not too fun for kids, the elderly, or anyone who can't react IMMEDIATELY both physically and mentally. I guess "that's just the city", but there is nothing safe about it.
- fnfjfk 3y ago
  The west side greenway is segregated downtown and in midtown, but joggers and tourists often go in the bike part anyways. There are some pretty clear signs and bikes painted on the ground there, but they get ignored. Uptown, around the 80s I think, it is shared, but it’s less crowded and it’s more New Yorkers that know what’s up rather than tourists.
ygjb 3y ago
Vancouver, a very bicycle friendly city, has numerous shared pedestrian and bike paths. Most of the ones that are shared are usually sidewalk transitions between bike lanes and busy streets where there simply isn't space to build a separated bike path. That said, many, many of the bike and pedestrian paths are adjacent and are only separated by a painted lines, and signs urging pedestrians to stay out of bike lanes :/
tetromino_ 3y ago
> I don't understand what a "pedestrian bike path" is. A narrow paved path through city or suburban parkland, built to be shared by pedestrians and casual, non-electric bike riders. It's an extremely common setup in the US and safe as long as the bike riders ride slowly (which was the cultural norm when such paths were built). Wannabe racers with road bikes and lycra shorts make such paths dangerous for pedestrians. Fools out of control on electric bikes - even more so.
samman 3y ago
A lot of places have “multi-use” paths, open to pedestrians, bikes , skateboards, etc —-previously all human-powered modes of transit.
labcomputer 3y ago
Actually, as a cyclist, I would tend agree with the person you're replying to. A major factor is that (the vast majority of) people can't hop on a pushbike and just go 20+ mph. Non-athletes typically ride about 12 mph when they first hop on. By the time they develop the muscles and cardio to ride a sustained 20 mph, they also develop the bike-handling skills to reasonably ride that fast, as well as an awareness of when it is appropriate to ride that fast. In contrast, anyone who hasn't ridden a bike since childhood can hop on an eBike and be going 20 mph seconds later. They often don't know how to handle a bike around other people. > If I were required to bike on the road instead I simply wouldn't do it, it's far too dangerous. So we'd probably end up having to get a car and if, heaven forbid, I were to get in any kind of an accident a pedestrian would be considerably worse off. A collision, not an accident. And you make it sound like something that happened to you as the driver of the car.
- afavour 3y ago
  > By the time they develop the muscles and cardio to ride a sustained 20 mph, they also develop the bike-handling skills to reasonably ride that fast, as well as an awareness of when it is appropriate to ride that fast. honestly... lol. I'm lucky enough to live near a large park often populated by the lycra-clad performance bikers and while I certainly hope they have awareness of when it's appropriate to ride fast they don't demonstrate it. They blow through pedestrian crossings, buzz past slower riders in choke points all while blowing a whistle or screaming "ON YOUR RIGHT" as if it makes everything okay. There's a strong culture of entitlement at work. > A major factor is that (the vast majority of) people can't hop on a pushbike and just go 20+ mph. They can, though, if they're going downhill. Largely they don't because they don't feel comfortable doing so and they apply brakes. The same applies to e-bikes. As someone who rides one all the time I certainly don't jump on it and immediately feel invulnerable or something. It took me a long time to get comfortable riding at 20mph and even now it's very rare that I do. > A collision, not an accident. And you make it sound like something that happened to you as the driver of the car. OK, sure. I don't even own a car, I don't see a lot of value in debating the semantics of a theoretical event I don't even own the means to create.
  - 3y ago
P_I_Staker 3y ago
Based on your comment, even the edit, it seems like you don't understand how infrastructure works in the US. There's not many bike lanes, and pedestrians share the path. So your assumption was hilariously backwards. If a pedestrian and a bike are in conflict it's safe to assume that it's a mixed path, and the biker is being a jerk. After all the pedestrian has the right of way on the mixed trail.
cameldrv 3y ago
Where I live there are a lot of combination pedestrian/cycle paths, and the speed limit is 15 mph and even lower in busy sections. More than that seems like a recipe for nasty accidents.
tivert 3y ago
>> zooming by me and my infant in a stroller at speeds that are too dangerous to be on paths > To be clear: you and your infant are not sharing the path with this bike, right? It's on a bike path, you're on a pedestrian path. I don't understand what a "pedestrian bike path" is. If a car drives past the sidewalk at 25mph do you have a similar reaction? If not, why not? In my experience in the US, it's not very common to have separate paths for bikers and pedestrians. In my area, they almost never occur together, and the only areas with separate paths for bikes and pedestrians are especially popular parks. Colloquially, I understand "bike path" to mean an "asphalt sidewalk" (that may or may not parallel a road), and a "sidewalk" mean a sidewalk made out of concrete slabs that usually parallels a road. Bike paths are usually wider than sidewalks. Both are used by bikes and pedestrians, but in residential areas (at least), it's rude to ride a bike on the sidewalk unless you're a kid.

throw1234651234 3y ago

I was just in NYC (not a resident, so it's fresh). You cross a "bike" path any time you cross a street. On the West side "health run path thing" there isn't enough space for both bikes and pedestrians and there is constantly a chance of collision. It's pretty unsafe. Guessing it's not too fun for kids, the elderly, or anyone who can't react IMMEDIATELY both physically and mentally. I guess "that's just the city", but there is nothing safe about it.

fnfjfk 3y ago
The west side greenway is segregated downtown and in midtown, but joggers and tourists often go in the bike part anyways. There are some pretty clear signs and bikes painted on the ground there, but they get ignored. Uptown, around the 80s I think, it is shared, but it’s less crowded and it’s more New Yorkers that know what’s up rather than tourists.

ygjb 3y ago

Vancouver, a very bicycle friendly city, has numerous shared pedestrian and bike paths. Most of the ones that are shared are usually sidewalk transitions between bike lanes and busy streets where there simply isn't space to build a separated bike path. That said, many, many of the bike and pedestrian paths are adjacent and are only separated by a painted lines, and signs urging pedestrians to stay out of bike lanes :/

tetromino_ 3y ago

> I don't understand what a "pedestrian bike path" is. A narrow paved path through city or suburban parkland, built to be shared by pedestrians and casual, non-electric bike riders. It's an extremely common setup in the US and safe as long as the bike riders ride slowly (which was the cultural norm when such paths were built). Wannabe racers with road bikes and lycra shorts make such paths dangerous for pedestrians. Fools out of control on electric bikes - even more so.

samman 3y ago

A lot of places have “multi-use” paths, open to pedestrians, bikes , skateboards, etc —-previously all human-powered modes of transit.

labcomputer 3y ago

Actually, as a cyclist, I would tend agree with the person you're replying to. A major factor is that (the vast majority of) people can't hop on a pushbike and just go 20+ mph. Non-athletes typically ride about 12 mph when they first hop on. By the time they develop the muscles and cardio to ride a sustained 20 mph, they also develop the bike-handling skills to reasonably ride that fast, as well as an awareness of when it is appropriate to ride that fast. In contrast, anyone who hasn't ridden a bike since childhood can hop on an eBike and be going 20 mph seconds later. They often don't know how to handle a bike around other people. > If I were required to bike on the road instead I simply wouldn't do it, it's far too dangerous. So we'd probably end up having to get a car and if, heaven forbid, I were to get in any kind of an accident a pedestrian would be considerably worse off. A collision, not an accident. And you make it sound like something that happened to you as the driver of the car.

afavour 3y ago
> By the time they develop the muscles and cardio to ride a sustained 20 mph, they also develop the bike-handling skills to reasonably ride that fast, as well as an awareness of when it is appropriate to ride that fast. honestly... lol. I'm lucky enough to live near a large park often populated by the lycra-clad performance bikers and while I certainly hope they have awareness of when it's appropriate to ride fast they don't demonstrate it. They blow through pedestrian crossings, buzz past slower riders in choke points all while blowing a whistle or screaming "ON YOUR RIGHT" as if it makes everything okay. There's a strong culture of entitlement at work. > A major factor is that (the vast majority of) people can't hop on a pushbike and just go 20+ mph. They can, though, if they're going downhill. Largely they don't because they don't feel comfortable doing so and they apply brakes. The same applies to e-bikes. As someone who rides one all the time I certainly don't jump on it and immediately feel invulnerable or something. It took me a long time to get comfortable riding at 20mph and even now it's very rare that I do. > A collision, not an accident. And you make it sound like something that happened to you as the driver of the car. OK, sure. I don't even own a car, I don't see a lot of value in debating the semantics of a theoretical event I don't even own the means to create.
- 3y ago

P_I_Staker 3y ago

Based on your comment, even the edit, it seems like you don't understand how infrastructure works in the US. There's not many bike lanes, and pedestrians share the path. So your assumption was hilariously backwards. If a pedestrian and a bike are in conflict it's safe to assume that it's a mixed path, and the biker is being a jerk. After all the pedestrian has the right of way on the mixed trail.

cameldrv 3y ago

Where I live there are a lot of combination pedestrian/cycle paths, and the speed limit is 15 mph and even lower in busy sections. More than that seems like a recipe for nasty accidents.

tivert 3y ago

>> zooming by me and my infant in a stroller at speeds that are too dangerous to be on paths > To be clear: you and your infant are not sharing the path with this bike, right? It's on a bike path, you're on a pedestrian path. I don't understand what a "pedestrian bike path" is. If a car drives past the sidewalk at 25mph do you have a similar reaction? If not, why not? In my experience in the US, it's not very common to have separate paths for bikers and pedestrians. In my area, they almost never occur together, and the only areas with separate paths for bikes and pedestrians are especially popular parks. Colloquially, I understand "bike path" to mean an "asphalt sidewalk" (that may or may not parallel a road), and a "sidewalk" mean a sidewalk made out of concrete slabs that usually parallels a road. Bike paths are usually wider than sidewalks. Both are used by bikes and pedestrians, but in residential areas (at least), it's rude to ride a bike on the sidewalk unless you're a kid.