5 ms·

But they also do entirely plain units that last well with no 'extras' - their commercial units are also great and easy to repair. But most people want to spend

by ljf 3y ago

But they also do entirely plain units that last well with no 'extras' - their commercial units are also great and easy to repair. But most people want to spend as little as they can so avoid the commercial units.

bombcar 3y ago
This is it - high quality stuff is often still made, but it's expensive and/or has other downsides that you really do need to be aware of. For example, commercial equipment is often bullet-proof and long-lived, but it can be louder than you'd want in a home kitchen. Commercial dish washers have no noise insulation, get hot, but can wash dishes so fast they can crack them from the temperature changes. Commercial ovens have no or minimal heat insulation, so when you fire them up you can really warm up a room fast, and they have to be installed away from flammable materials. And people need to be honest about it, too - whenever you buy an appliance new, write the purchase date in indelible ink or spray paint on the back of the unit, because I've had appliances I was sure "lasted barely more than the warranty" and then I realized I'd purchased it 15 years ago.
- veave 3y ago
  Surely high quality stuff is cheaper than it was 50 years ago when adjusted for inflation.
  - LorenPechtel 3y ago
    Except in many cases it's simply not available.
- usefulcat 3y ago
  > Commercial ovens have no or minimal heat insulation This seems counter intuitive to me. Why would I not want more insulation in an oven that's going to be used a lot more? Seems like the cost of the insulation would be amortized more quickly than in a home kitchen, since a commercial oven is presumably being used a lot more?
  - masklinn 3y ago
    Possibly because you want very responsive temperature control, if the oven has a lot of insulation it's more efficient but it responds much more slowly to temperature decreases.
    - amluto 3y ago
      This should be straightforwardly solvable with an improved control algorithm. A well insulated oven cools much more slowly with the door closed, so a control algorithm can’t recover as quickly if it overshoots the set temperature.
      - masklinn 3y ago
        It's not just a question of control algorithm, if have one dish you need high, and the next you need lower, you have not overshot anything but you need the oven to come down. No control algorithm will magic that out.
        amluto 3y ago
        An exhaust fan, on the other hand, will do a great job. And some ovens have an exhaust fan for smoke control (hah, I grew up with one of those and I miss it) and to reduce humidity in the oven when desired (nice, but not nearly as nice as the extinct Thermador system). Admittedly, the ducted exhaust fan is not nearly as useful in a commercial setting where the oven is under a hood.
  - Swizec 3y ago
    > Why would I not want more insulation in an oven that's going to be used a lot more? Primarily different regulations. Everyone interacting with a commercial oven is a trained professional getting paid to be there and the space is designed to a certified standard. This means you can focus more on pure performance and less on liability stuff. And commercial equipment, because it needs to last long, is optimized for maintenance. I imagine insulation makes it harder to access and clean (or fix) the internals of an oven. Not to mention how often you’d have to change the insulation to keep your kitchen up to health standards.
- kjkjadksj 3y ago
  I can’t imagine even worse insulation than a normal oven. Whenever I open my broiler door and pull out the drawer I can see the kitchen floor getting the 500* blast straight on.
  - bombcar 3y ago
    Imagine that level of insulation on everything, including the door. Kids aren't under the oven and can't touch that, so it's often not insulated or insulated badly (which should be taken into consideration when designing a kitchen).
- bluGill 3y ago
  Commerical dishwashers are better called dish sterilizers. Unlike home dishwashers they are not built to get dishes clean (other than what a minimal rinse does). You have to pre-wash everything if you want it to come clean.
  - bombcar 3y ago
    The key is a commercial dishwasher almost never sees "dry food" - the plates either go past a sprayer to get most everything off, or they went into a soaker. Whereas home dishwashers are designed to run all night slowly recirculating water and removing caked-on grime (with more or less success).
lotsofpulp 3y ago
You do not even have to use commercial units. Go to Costco.com or HomeDepot.com or Lowes.com or BestBuy.com and you can filter for fridges without unnecessary frills and see many options. There are at least 7 different simple top freezers at Costco, and at least 3 French door freezers without even water dispensers. Not sure what else people want, other than to complain.
- troupe 3y ago
  The thing that usually breaks on my refrigerators is the plastic shelves. They just don't seem designed to last more than 4 or 5 years at the most. I'm not sure how to filter for "has shelves that don't decompose when kept cool."
  - lotsofpulp 3y ago
    I have never seen or heard of that happening. Are they being overloaded?
    - troupe 3y ago
      I don't think so. Just a typically loaded fridge. The shelfs have metal arms and then plastic holding the glass to the metal. Structurally the weight is on the plastic though and the plastic breaks. This is on a 12 year old LG refrigerator that works just fine on staying cool.
  - secabeen 3y ago
    Interesting, all the fridges I've seen have glass shelves, and usually metal framing/brackets. The drawers are plastic, and eventually do go, but replacements are available.
  - zo1 3y ago
    I've never seen fridge plastic decompose. What are you doing to those materials that makes them do that? I've never in my entire life's existence seen plastic inside a fridge that has "decomposed". I've just seen them get grey/cloudy over time if they're clear-plastic, and maybe crack. Besides that, indestructible.
justinlloyd 3y ago
Agreed on your points. Much like Samsung make domestic TVs and domestic fridges (and microwaves and toasters, and a bunch of other stuff), Samsung also makes their commercial line, which is, visually, almost identical, except that it will lack one or two features (no internet connectivity, no requirement to connect to WiFi so that your water filter works), or have a slightly less efficient motor, or metal blades on a fan that increase the energy consumption by 0.05% per year. And you can only buy those devices through dealers, and they cost about 50% to 150% more in price.

by ljf 3y ago

bombcar 3y ago

This is it - high quality stuff is often still made, but it's expensive and/or has other downsides that you really do need to be aware of. For example, commercial equipment is often bullet-proof and long-lived, but it can be louder than you'd want in a home kitchen. Commercial dish washers have no noise insulation, get hot, but can wash dishes so fast they can crack them from the temperature changes. Commercial ovens have no or minimal heat insulation, so when you fire them up you can really warm up a room fast, and they have to be installed away from flammable materials. And people need to be honest about it, too - whenever you buy an appliance new, write the purchase date in indelible ink or spray paint on the back of the unit, because I've had appliances I was sure "lasted barely more than the warranty" and then I realized I'd purchased it 15 years ago.

veave 3y ago
Surely high quality stuff is cheaper than it was 50 years ago when adjusted for inflation.
- LorenPechtel 3y ago
  Except in many cases it's simply not available.
usefulcat 3y ago
> Commercial ovens have no or minimal heat insulation This seems counter intuitive to me. Why would I not want more insulation in an oven that's going to be used a lot more? Seems like the cost of the insulation would be amortized more quickly than in a home kitchen, since a commercial oven is presumably being used a lot more?
- masklinn 3y ago
  Possibly because you want very responsive temperature control, if the oven has a lot of insulation it's more efficient but it responds much more slowly to temperature decreases.
  - amluto 3y ago
    This should be straightforwardly solvable with an improved control algorithm. A well insulated oven cools much more slowly with the door closed, so a control algorithm can’t recover as quickly if it overshoots the set temperature.
    - masklinn 3y ago
      It's not just a question of control algorithm, if have one dish you need high, and the next you need lower, you have not overshot anything but you need the oven to come down. No control algorithm will magic that out.
      - amluto 3y ago
        An exhaust fan, on the other hand, will do a great job. And some ovens have an exhaust fan for smoke control (hah, I grew up with one of those and I miss it) and to reduce humidity in the oven when desired (nice, but not nearly as nice as the extinct Thermador system). Admittedly, the ducted exhaust fan is not nearly as useful in a commercial setting where the oven is under a hood.
- Swizec 3y ago
  > Why would I not want more insulation in an oven that's going to be used a lot more? Primarily different regulations. Everyone interacting with a commercial oven is a trained professional getting paid to be there and the space is designed to a certified standard. This means you can focus more on pure performance and less on liability stuff. And commercial equipment, because it needs to last long, is optimized for maintenance. I imagine insulation makes it harder to access and clean (or fix) the internals of an oven. Not to mention how often you’d have to change the insulation to keep your kitchen up to health standards.
kjkjadksj 3y ago
I can’t imagine even worse insulation than a normal oven. Whenever I open my broiler door and pull out the drawer I can see the kitchen floor getting the 500* blast straight on.
- bombcar 3y ago
  Imagine that level of insulation on everything, including the door. Kids aren't under the oven and can't touch that, so it's often not insulated or insulated badly (which should be taken into consideration when designing a kitchen).
bluGill 3y ago
Commerical dishwashers are better called dish sterilizers. Unlike home dishwashers they are not built to get dishes clean (other than what a minimal rinse does). You have to pre-wash everything if you want it to come clean.
- bombcar 3y ago
  The key is a commercial dishwasher almost never sees "dry food" - the plates either go past a sprayer to get most everything off, or they went into a soaker. Whereas home dishwashers are designed to run all night slowly recirculating water and removing caked-on grime (with more or less success).

lotsofpulp 3y ago

You do not even have to use commercial units. Go to Costco.com or HomeDepot.com or Lowes.com or BestBuy.com and you can filter for fridges without unnecessary frills and see many options. There are at least 7 different simple top freezers at Costco, and at least 3 French door freezers without even water dispensers. Not sure what else people want, other than to complain.

troupe 3y ago
The thing that usually breaks on my refrigerators is the plastic shelves. They just don't seem designed to last more than 4 or 5 years at the most. I'm not sure how to filter for "has shelves that don't decompose when kept cool."
- lotsofpulp 3y ago
  I have never seen or heard of that happening. Are they being overloaded?
  - troupe 3y ago
    I don't think so. Just a typically loaded fridge. The shelfs have metal arms and then plastic holding the glass to the metal. Structurally the weight is on the plastic though and the plastic breaks. This is on a 12 year old LG refrigerator that works just fine on staying cool.
- secabeen 3y ago
  Interesting, all the fridges I've seen have glass shelves, and usually metal framing/brackets. The drawers are plastic, and eventually do go, but replacements are available.
- zo1 3y ago
  I've never seen fridge plastic decompose. What are you doing to those materials that makes them do that? I've never in my entire life's existence seen plastic inside a fridge that has "decomposed". I've just seen them get grey/cloudy over time if they're clear-plastic, and maybe crack. Besides that, indestructible.

justinlloyd 3y ago

Agreed on your points. Much like Samsung make domestic TVs and domestic fridges (and microwaves and toasters, and a bunch of other stuff), Samsung also makes their commercial line, which is, visually, almost identical, except that it will lack one or two features (no internet connectivity, no requirement to connect to WiFi so that your water filter works), or have a slightly less efficient motor, or metal blades on a fan that increase the energy consumption by 0.05% per year. And you can only buy those devices through dealers, and they cost about 50% to 150% more in price.