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This reminds me of the same types of complaints around air travel now versus the 50s/60s. Both ignore the relative costs and the fact that you can still buy hig

This reminds me of the same types of complaints around air travel now versus the 50s/60s. Both ignore the relative costs and the fact that you can still buy high-end fridges or first class tickets if you are willing to spend the same amount of money that you would have had to back then.

phren0logy 3y ago
True, but even most high-end brands these days are more about fashion and high markups for the illusion of luxury than actually better quality. Though at least they generally have far better customer service, which makes a big difference.
- oblio 3y ago
  It probably depends on where you are, but you can absolutely find brands where the production quality is higher. It's like with electric bikes. You can buy VanMoof (bling) or Gazelle (quality).
  - dagw 3y ago
    but you can absolutely find brands where the production quality is higher The problem is that those are mostly targeting professional kitchens and generally aren't what people want in their home kitchen. Finding something that will perform and last like a professional grade piece of kit, while still work and look good in your designer home kitchen is very hard.
    - oblio 3y ago
      That's always been the case.
imchillyb 3y ago
There is no real world comparison between air travel in the 50’s with anything else, except perhaps rampant enshitification. Double decker airframes, a standing lounge, smoking on board, unrestrained pets at the lounge… Nothing compares to the removal of these standards on all domestic flights. No industry did the consumer as dirty.
- AnimalMuppet 3y ago
  Double decker airframes? Since you're talking about the 1950s, you're sure not referring to what I think that means (747/A380-style "double decker"). What do you mean by your statement. Smoking on board? Yeah, as a non-smoker, that change was a major improvement. It may have done dirty to the smokers, but those are not the majority...
- robin_reala 3y ago
  I’m old enough to remember smoking on board flights (and trains), and I’m extremely happy that those days are behind us.
  - rascul 3y ago
    I'm a smoker and I'm also glad we don't allow smoking on flights and trains.
- HeyLaughingBoy 3y ago
  ...orders of magnitude improvement in safety don't matter, but yeah, you could light up back then and get bit by someone's lap rat for good measure.
- etblg 3y ago
  Choosing the 1950s as a great time for air travel seems like an odd choice, the first pressurized airliners to be used widely started in the late 1960s. Air travel in the 1950s was done in slow propeller planes like a DC-6, which were very loud, had a low service ceiling, had a low range, weren't particularly safe, and were unattainably expensive for most people to use. The 747 was only put in to service in 1970, the 737 in 1968.
pikahumu 3y ago
If you want to fly without the security theatre today then a first-class ticket won't cut it. You'd need to get a private jet, which is of higher relative cost than a plane ticket was in the 60s.
- r0fl 3y ago
  Many first class tickets have priority check in, and separate priority security at many major airports. You avoid a lot of the security theatre that way.
  - pikahumu 3y ago
    No, you don't avoid it. You just reduce the wait time in line. It's not just about the queues. Even with first class you still need to get body-scans, pat-downs, get your hand luggage searched, perhaps take off shoes and belt, and throw away the water bottle you just purchased inside the airport and the toothpaste you forgot to move from hand luggage to checked-in. That has become so normalized that most people just shrug, but it's a quite humiliating treatment and most of it is meaningless beyond the mere appearance of security.
JumpinJack_Cash 3y ago
> > This reminds me of the same types of complaints around air travel now versus the 50s/60s The huge difference compared to banck then is TSA, for cultural reasons I don't think many people would complain about not being able to smoke on board or the fact that planes are a tad slower. Air travel completely changed because for some reason ill intentioned people decided to bring their ill intentions to fruition on a plane instead of a train. As a matter of fact the same group targeted trains in Madrid and London as well as malls, but the assumption is that since trains and malls cannot be defended fatalism is not only authorized, but it's the only game in town. Stark comparison to the process you have to undertake to catch a plane, where you have to provide an x-ray of your bowels before being allowed to board. In the 50s and 60s where you could board first and then purchase the ticket on board....can you imagine something like this today?
- BeetleB 3y ago
  I think what GP was referring to were the larger seats, more leg room, free meals, and a few other perks.
  - dustincoates 3y ago
    Precisely. If you want a high-end dinner and an open bar with a lay-down bed while you fly, well you pay for it, and if you fly Emirates, you can even have a shower thrown in.
    - BeetleB 3y ago
      I want to fly from LA to NY with these amenities. Will Emirates fly me there?
      - dustincoates 3y ago
        You're not getting a shower or a stand up bar, but the rest, sure: https://www.cntraveler.com/story/where-to-find-lie-flat-seats-on-domestic-flights https://www.cntraveler.com/story/where-to-find-lie-flat-seat... (I even had a nice salmon meal on my last business flight between Austin to LAX, in fact, which seemed opulent, but I wasn't complaining!)
michaelt 3y ago
> you can still buy high-end fridges or first class tickets if you are willing to spend the same amount Can you, though? Or has the maker of that high-end $1500 fridge been brought out by the maker of $500 fridges? Are the two brands made in the same factory, to the same quality standards, while the owners laugh at those chumps who are paying 3x the price just to have a different sticker on the front? I've brought high-end white goods in the past and found the performance unimpressive. In my case, a high-end washing machine with poor rinse performance.
- r0fl 3y ago
  You can buy column fridge / freezers from sub zero, thermador, miele that are about $20,000-$30,000 (price in Canada) with complete different quality standards
  - michaelt 3y ago
    Actually it was a Miele washing machine that produced that mediocre rinse performance I mentioned.
- BeetleB 3y ago
  Sorry, but $1500 is not high end. Not even close. Heuristic: If you can buy it at Lowe's/Home Depot, it probably isn't high end.
- rsynnott 3y ago
  This is, of course, why you should always investigate the corporate structure of your appliance makers. There certainly are high-end, or at least highish-end brands in that camp, but it's not all of them.

phren0logy 3y ago

True, but even most high-end brands these days are more about fashion and high markups for the illusion of luxury than actually better quality. Though at least they generally have far better customer service, which makes a big difference.

oblio 3y ago
It probably depends on where you are, but you can absolutely find brands where the production quality is higher. It's like with electric bikes. You can buy VanMoof (bling) or Gazelle (quality).
- dagw 3y ago
  but you can absolutely find brands where the production quality is higher The problem is that those are mostly targeting professional kitchens and generally aren't what people want in their home kitchen. Finding something that will perform and last like a professional grade piece of kit, while still work and look good in your designer home kitchen is very hard.
  - oblio 3y ago
    That's always been the case.

imchillyb 3y ago

There is no real world comparison between air travel in the 50’s with anything else, except perhaps rampant enshitification. Double decker airframes, a standing lounge, smoking on board, unrestrained pets at the lounge… Nothing compares to the removal of these standards on all domestic flights. No industry did the consumer as dirty.

AnimalMuppet 3y ago
Double decker airframes? Since you're talking about the 1950s, you're sure not referring to what I think that means (747/A380-style "double decker"). What do you mean by your statement. Smoking on board? Yeah, as a non-smoker, that change was a major improvement. It may have done dirty to the smokers, but those are not the majority...
robin_reala 3y ago
I’m old enough to remember smoking on board flights (and trains), and I’m extremely happy that those days are behind us.
- rascul 3y ago
  I'm a smoker and I'm also glad we don't allow smoking on flights and trains.
HeyLaughingBoy 3y ago
...orders of magnitude improvement in safety don't matter, but yeah, you could light up back then and get bit by someone's lap rat for good measure.
etblg 3y ago
Choosing the 1950s as a great time for air travel seems like an odd choice, the first pressurized airliners to be used widely started in the late 1960s. Air travel in the 1950s was done in slow propeller planes like a DC-6, which were very loud, had a low service ceiling, had a low range, weren't particularly safe, and were unattainably expensive for most people to use. The 747 was only put in to service in 1970, the 737 in 1968.

pikahumu 3y ago

If you want to fly without the security theatre today then a first-class ticket won't cut it. You'd need to get a private jet, which is of higher relative cost than a plane ticket was in the 60s.

r0fl 3y ago
Many first class tickets have priority check in, and separate priority security at many major airports. You avoid a lot of the security theatre that way.
- pikahumu 3y ago
  No, you don't avoid it. You just reduce the wait time in line. It's not just about the queues. Even with first class you still need to get body-scans, pat-downs, get your hand luggage searched, perhaps take off shoes and belt, and throw away the water bottle you just purchased inside the airport and the toothpaste you forgot to move from hand luggage to checked-in. That has become so normalized that most people just shrug, but it's a quite humiliating treatment and most of it is meaningless beyond the mere appearance of security.

JumpinJack_Cash 3y ago

> > This reminds me of the same types of complaints around air travel now versus the 50s/60s The huge difference compared to banck then is TSA, for cultural reasons I don't think many people would complain about not being able to smoke on board or the fact that planes are a tad slower. Air travel completely changed because for some reason ill intentioned people decided to bring their ill intentions to fruition on a plane instead of a train. As a matter of fact the same group targeted trains in Madrid and London as well as malls, but the assumption is that since trains and malls cannot be defended fatalism is not only authorized, but it's the only game in town. Stark comparison to the process you have to undertake to catch a plane, where you have to provide an x-ray of your bowels before being allowed to board. In the 50s and 60s where you could board first and then purchase the ticket on board....can you imagine something like this today?

BeetleB 3y ago
I think what GP was referring to were the larger seats, more leg room, free meals, and a few other perks.
- dustincoates 3y ago
  Precisely. If you want a high-end dinner and an open bar with a lay-down bed while you fly, well you pay for it, and if you fly Emirates, you can even have a shower thrown in.
  - BeetleB 3y ago
    I want to fly from LA to NY with these amenities. Will Emirates fly me there?
    - dustincoates 3y ago
      You're not getting a shower or a stand up bar, but the rest, sure: https://www.cntraveler.com/story/where-to-find-lie-flat-seats-on-domestic-flights https://www.cntraveler.com/story/where-to-find-lie-flat-seat... (I even had a nice salmon meal on my last business flight between Austin to LAX, in fact, which seemed opulent, but I wasn't complaining!)

michaelt 3y ago

> you can still buy high-end fridges or first class tickets if you are willing to spend the same amount Can you, though? Or has the maker of that high-end $1500 fridge been brought out by the maker of $500 fridges? Are the two brands made in the same factory, to the same quality standards, while the owners laugh at those chumps who are paying 3x the price just to have a different sticker on the front? I've brought high-end white goods in the past and found the performance unimpressive. In my case, a high-end washing machine with poor rinse performance.

r0fl 3y ago
You can buy column fridge / freezers from sub zero, thermador, miele that are about $20,000-$30,000 (price in Canada) with complete different quality standards
- michaelt 3y ago
  Actually it was a Miele washing machine that produced that mediocre rinse performance I mentioned.
BeetleB 3y ago
Sorry, but $1500 is not high end. Not even close. Heuristic: If you can buy it at Lowe's/Home Depot, it probably isn't high end.
rsynnott 3y ago
This is, of course, why you should always investigate the corporate structure of your appliance makers. There certainly are high-end, or at least highish-end brands in that camp, but it's not all of them.