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NGO’s are also very much in favor. and so is much of the population. like in continental Europe, they don’t see the internet as we do on HN.

by kmlx 3y ago

BLKNSLVR 3y ago
Populations do seem to lack critical thinking overall. But this is probably just because everyone can be an expert (or even just "knowledgeable enough") in maybe one or two things, and have to rely on not-necessarily-trustworthy sources on all other topics. This averages out to "the wind blows in the direction that the majority of the media says it blows". And I don't know if that is a solvable problem. Not without a radically different style of government. I really feel how apt, but also defeatist, this quote is: "Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.…"
- kmlx 3y ago
  i have a much simpler theory: we kind of forgot how to manage both sides of an argument. we take sides because it's much easier than deeply understanding the issue and fixing it at it's core.
anonzzzies 3y ago
Even some HNers I know are in favour. You don’t hate children do you? DO YOU? Strange they don’t see how bad this is… and what an excuse terrorism and ‘the children’ are for blanket surveillance.
- BLKNSLVR 3y ago
  Someone replied to me on a different discussion of this topic with a very astute point, paraphrasing: 9 out of 10 people seem to prefer to catch and punish a pedo than pay higher taxes to fund actual child and family support services that actually, actively protect children from violence, hunger, drug abuse, and, depressingly, all the rest of the shit that gathers at the bottom end of humanity. Maybe not 9 out of 10, but I'd guess at least a majority, which is still a fucking sad state of affairs. On the other hand though, that could just be because actual, active child protection doesn't enter into political discussion of internet surveillance. So that's what we need to inject into the conversation to make "then" understand that there are more angles to view this from.
  - detourdog 3y ago
    In the USA it is quite obvious that somewhere above 30% to below 40% have a strong punitive idea. I also know many people that speak in liberal terms but act in a punitive fashion in actual relations. The issues are complex and it is easy to miss what the implementation of an idea looks like.
- detourdog 3y ago
  I see many comments by HNers that some developers feel entitled to information simply to make their application development easier or more MBA business plan friendly. I see them siting business reasons as the higher ideal that must be served. So there are at least 2 positions I have seen that are anti privacy. 1.Think of the children 2.the data is needed for business reasons

NGO’s are also very much in favor. and so is much of the population. like in continental Europe, they don’t see the internet as we do on HN.

by kmlx 3y ago

NGO’s are also very much in favor. and so is much of the population. like in continental Europe, they don’t see the internet as we do on HN.

BLKNSLVR 3y ago

Populations do seem to lack critical thinking overall. But this is probably just because everyone can be an expert (or even just "knowledgeable enough") in maybe one or two things, and have to rely on not-necessarily-trustworthy sources on all other topics. This averages out to "the wind blows in the direction that the majority of the media says it blows". And I don't know if that is a solvable problem. Not without a radically different style of government. I really feel how apt, but also defeatist, this quote is: "Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.…"

kmlx 3y ago
i have a much simpler theory: we kind of forgot how to manage both sides of an argument. we take sides because it's much easier than deeply understanding the issue and fixing it at it's core.

anonzzzies 3y ago

Even some HNers I know are in favour. You don’t hate children do you? DO YOU? Strange they don’t see how bad this is… and what an excuse terrorism and ‘the children’ are for blanket surveillance.

BLKNSLVR 3y ago
Someone replied to me on a different discussion of this topic with a very astute point, paraphrasing: 9 out of 10 people seem to prefer to catch and punish a pedo than pay higher taxes to fund actual child and family support services that actually, actively protect children from violence, hunger, drug abuse, and, depressingly, all the rest of the shit that gathers at the bottom end of humanity. Maybe not 9 out of 10, but I'd guess at least a majority, which is still a fucking sad state of affairs. On the other hand though, that could just be because actual, active child protection doesn't enter into political discussion of internet surveillance. So that's what we need to inject into the conversation to make "then" understand that there are more angles to view this from.
- detourdog 3y ago
  In the USA it is quite obvious that somewhere above 30% to below 40% have a strong punitive idea. I also know many people that speak in liberal terms but act in a punitive fashion in actual relations. The issues are complex and it is easy to miss what the implementation of an idea looks like.
detourdog 3y ago
I see many comments by HNers that some developers feel entitled to information simply to make their application development easier or more MBA business plan friendly. I see them siting business reasons as the higher ideal that must be served. So there are at least 2 positions I have seen that are anti privacy. 1.Think of the children 2.the data is needed for business reasons