7 ms·

See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtfUeip4vyA&t=335s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtfUeip4vyA&t=335s

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
ggm 3y ago
That's not "cold fusion" that's low energy fusion. It explicitly has surplus neutrons and radioactivity. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inertial_electrostatic_confinement https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inertial_electrostatic_confi... It's energy consuming. It's just lower energy than other methods, and it's emphatically not cold fusion.
- oneshtein 3y ago
  Low Energy Nuclear Reactions (LENR), AKA Cold Fusion.
  - tomrod 3y ago
    When someone mentions cold fusion, they are explicitly referencing a net energy-producing process that operates at room temperature. That isn't what you are referencing.
    - oneshtein 3y ago
      > Cold fusion is a hypothesized type of nuclear reaction that would occur at, or near, room temperature. Wikipedia It works at near room temperature. The goal of the reactor in the video is to produce isotopes. It does the job.
      - jacquesm 3y ago
        It can not ever produce net energy in this setting, so no, it doesn't do the job. It is in a room, but the temperature inside that vessel is anywhere north of 35,000 C. Unless you have a very hot room that isn't 'room temperature' by any stretch of the definition. Note that room temperature is about the temperature of the process not the temperature of the building containing that process.
        oneshtein 3y ago
        35kK in this reactor is much closer to room temperature than 150MK in ITER, isn't?
        sudosysgen 3y ago
        Sure, but that's fine and expected since you don't need a sufficient fusion density for net energy.
        MayeulC 3y ago
        Look, call 35K cold if you want. It's relatively easy to make some fusion at home [1] at even colder temperatures. However, the real issue here is __producing__ energy (edit: more than you put in). This has never been done in a sustained way (H-bombs produce net energy, there were some promising inertial confinement and tokamak results recently, but never for sustained periods of time). And in the chain, it's pointed out quite clearly that everybody understands "cold fusion" as referring to "net positive energy". [1]: https://fusor.net/board/index.php https://fusor.net/board/index.php
        oneshtein 3y ago
        I am old enough to remember "The Storm in a Glass". Back then, there was a discussion about excessive heat, because the scientific community doubted the possibility of nuclear fusion reactions at such low temperatures and energy costs. My own hypotheses were: a) the reaction is caused by cosmic radiation (muons), and the deuterium filled lattice only amplifies natural high-energy cosmic radiation; b) the reaction occurs through contamination of samples with radioactive materials, and the matrix only amplifies natural decay reactions; c) cracks in the material create resonance with alternating electric current, and as a result, a natural particle accelerator is formed. In the video, researches use lattice to boosts fusor performance by few orders of magnitude. Why you think that they cannot boost it further?
        jacquesm 3y ago
        > Why you think that they cannot boost it further? That's not how this works. Why do you think it can?
      - tomrod 3y ago
        Aye, it produces neutron isotopes, but not at room temperature and not with a net excess of energy. It's the difference between going on a Sunday walk and a Monday commute. Yes, technically, your body is physically moving places, but the similarities don't extend much beyond that point nor would we encourage mistaking one for the other.
        oneshtein 3y ago
        35 thousand Kelvin in a "cold" nuclear fusion reactor is much closer to room temperature than the temperature in a "hot" nuclear fusion reactor. Both types of reactors do not produce excess energy, but the cold reactor has already found application while the hot reactor will be ready in 25 years. Which kind of reactor is hoax?
        jacquesm 3y ago
        The cold reactor fuses nuclei by virtue of energy input, the other tries to extract energy from a fusion reaction larger than its input. On a complexity level you're looking at 1:10000 difference or worse.
        oneshtein 3y ago
        Cold Fusion doesn't work because we are exchanging high-energy particles, which are expensive to produce, for low grade heat in bulk of material. If we will have cheap source of muons, we can change equation. We can drop a tiny bit of Nickel lattice filled with Deuterium, and then strike it with muons from all angles, to create implosion. This will allow us to create tiny blast of hot plasma, which is much easier to extract energy from. Sadly, we have no such cheap source of muons, AFAIK.
        jacquesm 3y ago
        > If we will have cheap source of muons, we can change equation. You can make them but the cost in energy is exactly the problem: you will be spending money on energy to make muons at a considerable loss due to the inefficient ways in which we know how to make them (proton beams, which require a huge amount of energy to create), resulting in an insignificant number of particles. If your goal is to get net energy out it would be good to keep an eye on process efficiency from the beginning. Starting off with a billion to one or so conversion loss for step one raises the bar for the subsequent steps considerably. > Sadly, we have no such cheap source of muons, AFAIK. Indeed we do not, and that's pretty logical.
      - jjk166 3y ago
        It doesn't work anywhere near room temperature. Fusors operate at 10-30 keV, which is about 100 Million to 300 Million C. The plasma is extremely low density so there is very little power to heat things, and thus these units can safely run on a table top, but the temperature of the ions is enormous.
        oneshtein 3y ago
        You are right, nuclear reactions requires enough enormous energy to overcome the barrier OR a heavy particles (muon). However, fusor works at room temperature. It doesn't require preheating to 150MK to start operation, like ITER do.
        jjk166 3y ago
        No, the Fusor does not work at room temperature, the same electric coils that contain the ions also heat the ions. It actually runs substantially hotter than ITER.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

ggm 3y ago

That's not "cold fusion" that's low energy fusion. It explicitly has surplus neutrons and radioactivity. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inertial_electrostatic_confinement https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inertial_electrostatic_confi... It's energy consuming. It's just lower energy than other methods, and it's emphatically not cold fusion.

oneshtein 3y ago
Low Energy Nuclear Reactions (LENR), AKA Cold Fusion.
- tomrod 3y ago
  When someone mentions cold fusion, they are explicitly referencing a net energy-producing process that operates at room temperature. That isn't what you are referencing.
  - oneshtein 3y ago
    > Cold fusion is a hypothesized type of nuclear reaction that would occur at, or near, room temperature. Wikipedia It works at near room temperature. The goal of the reactor in the video is to produce isotopes. It does the job.
    - jacquesm 3y ago
      It can not ever produce net energy in this setting, so no, it doesn't do the job. It is in a room, but the temperature inside that vessel is anywhere north of 35,000 C. Unless you have a very hot room that isn't 'room temperature' by any stretch of the definition. Note that room temperature is about the temperature of the process not the temperature of the building containing that process.
      - oneshtein 3y ago
        35kK in this reactor is much closer to room temperature than 150MK in ITER, isn't?
        sudosysgen 3y ago
        Sure, but that's fine and expected since you don't need a sufficient fusion density for net energy.
        MayeulC 3y ago
        Look, call 35K cold if you want. It's relatively easy to make some fusion at home [1] at even colder temperatures. However, the real issue here is __producing__ energy (edit: more than you put in). This has never been done in a sustained way (H-bombs produce net energy, there were some promising inertial confinement and tokamak results recently, but never for sustained periods of time). And in the chain, it's pointed out quite clearly that everybody understands "cold fusion" as referring to "net positive energy". [1]: https://fusor.net/board/index.php https://fusor.net/board/index.php
        oneshtein 3y ago
        I am old enough to remember "The Storm in a Glass". Back then, there was a discussion about excessive heat, because the scientific community doubted the possibility of nuclear fusion reactions at such low temperatures and energy costs. My own hypotheses were: a) the reaction is caused by cosmic radiation (muons), and the deuterium filled lattice only amplifies natural high-energy cosmic radiation; b) the reaction occurs through contamination of samples with radioactive materials, and the matrix only amplifies natural decay reactions; c) cracks in the material create resonance with alternating electric current, and as a result, a natural particle accelerator is formed. In the video, researches use lattice to boosts fusor performance by few orders of magnitude. Why you think that they cannot boost it further?
        jacquesm 3y ago
        > Why you think that they cannot boost it further? That's not how this works. Why do you think it can?
    - tomrod 3y ago
      Aye, it produces neutron isotopes, but not at room temperature and not with a net excess of energy. It's the difference between going on a Sunday walk and a Monday commute. Yes, technically, your body is physically moving places, but the similarities don't extend much beyond that point nor would we encourage mistaking one for the other.
      - oneshtein 3y ago
        35 thousand Kelvin in a "cold" nuclear fusion reactor is much closer to room temperature than the temperature in a "hot" nuclear fusion reactor. Both types of reactors do not produce excess energy, but the cold reactor has already found application while the hot reactor will be ready in 25 years. Which kind of reactor is hoax?
        jacquesm 3y ago
        The cold reactor fuses nuclei by virtue of energy input, the other tries to extract energy from a fusion reaction larger than its input. On a complexity level you're looking at 1:10000 difference or worse.
        oneshtein 3y ago
        Cold Fusion doesn't work because we are exchanging high-energy particles, which are expensive to produce, for low grade heat in bulk of material. If we will have cheap source of muons, we can change equation. We can drop a tiny bit of Nickel lattice filled with Deuterium, and then strike it with muons from all angles, to create implosion. This will allow us to create tiny blast of hot plasma, which is much easier to extract energy from. Sadly, we have no such cheap source of muons, AFAIK.
        jacquesm 3y ago
        > If we will have cheap source of muons, we can change equation. You can make them but the cost in energy is exactly the problem: you will be spending money on energy to make muons at a considerable loss due to the inefficient ways in which we know how to make them (proton beams, which require a huge amount of energy to create), resulting in an insignificant number of particles. If your goal is to get net energy out it would be good to keep an eye on process efficiency from the beginning. Starting off with a billion to one or so conversion loss for step one raises the bar for the subsequent steps considerably. > Sadly, we have no such cheap source of muons, AFAIK. Indeed we do not, and that's pretty logical.
    - jjk166 3y ago
      It doesn't work anywhere near room temperature. Fusors operate at 10-30 keV, which is about 100 Million to 300 Million C. The plasma is extremely low density so there is very little power to heat things, and thus these units can safely run on a table top, but the temperature of the ions is enormous.
      - oneshtein 3y ago
        You are right, nuclear reactions requires enough enormous energy to overcome the barrier OR a heavy particles (muon). However, fusor works at room temperature. It doesn't require preheating to 150MK to start operation, like ITER do.
        jjk166 3y ago
        No, the Fusor does not work at room temperature, the same electric coils that contain the ions also heat the ions. It actually runs substantially hotter than ITER.