4 ms·

Free speech is about being able to say unpopular things, like that black people shouldn't be slaves in the early 1800s. It's not about saying untrue things. The

by chipsa 3y ago

Free speech is about being able to say unpopular things, like that black people shouldn't be slaves in the early 1800s. It's not about saying untrue things. The tricky thing about "untrue things", is sometimes it's hard to see for certain, like "COVID was potentially a leak of a cultured virus from a lab".

jeroenhd 3y ago
Free speech mostly involves what things the government can do when you say things they don't like. I can say the government is a corrupt bunch of nepotistic idiots without fearing the government coming to my door and arresting me or forcing websites to take down such expression. If I go around this forum posting "chips rapes children" everywhere you go and you sue me for defamation, that doesn't mean you're against free speech. You have the right to protect your good name as much as I have the right to express my opinions about you. I this example, you would obviously have the ability to crush me in court for spreading baseless accusations. There are troubling threats to free speech, such as the incendiary lies spread under the guise of "fake news", followed by governments trying to control the wild conspiracy theories and endangering our rights to free speech in the process. However, you having the right to defend yourself against baseless accusations isn't a threat against anyone's human rights.
- phkahler 3y ago
  >> However, you having the right to defend yourself against baseless accusations isn't a threat against anyone's human rights. The key point is that to defend yourself against baseless accusations often requires that the accuser be known.
- chipsa 3y ago
  Free speech is not just the government. The first amendment incarnation of it applies against the government, but the first amendment isn’t the whole of free speech.
  - jeroenhd 3y ago
    The first ammendment doesn't apply to a Dutch court case. Of course there's article 7 of the Dutch constitution (as a guide for laws related to speech, not necessarily for individual rights, as judges cannot directly use them in most judgements) and article 10 of the ECHR (which comes with loads of exceptions like ensuring protection of morals) but those are still directed at states and governments rather than individual freedoms. Of course the concept of freedom of expression goes beyond the legal definition, but the legal definition is the only one that's relevant as that's the freedom you actually have.
wvh 3y ago
You can also say true things that do not fall under free speech, like publishing somebody's home address. Clearly there's some balance to be found in releasing details about intimate relationships.
- evandale 3y ago
  > Clearly there's some balance to be found in releasing details about intimate relationships Yes and the current laws are adequate enough to address this. We don't need to restrict everybody's free speech because 1 person published their ex's home address. Stay out of my life and my business and punish the people for breaking the law. That's not a good reason to take the ability to be anonymous away from everyone.

by chipsa 3y ago

jeroenhd 3y ago

Free speech mostly involves what things the government can do when you say things they don't like. I can say the government is a corrupt bunch of nepotistic idiots without fearing the government coming to my door and arresting me or forcing websites to take down such expression. If I go around this forum posting "chips rapes children" everywhere you go and you sue me for defamation, that doesn't mean you're against free speech. You have the right to protect your good name as much as I have the right to express my opinions about you. I this example, you would obviously have the ability to crush me in court for spreading baseless accusations. There are troubling threats to free speech, such as the incendiary lies spread under the guise of "fake news", followed by governments trying to control the wild conspiracy theories and endangering our rights to free speech in the process. However, you having the right to defend yourself against baseless accusations isn't a threat against anyone's human rights.

phkahler 3y ago
>> However, you having the right to defend yourself against baseless accusations isn't a threat against anyone's human rights. The key point is that to defend yourself against baseless accusations often requires that the accuser be known.
chipsa 3y ago
Free speech is not just the government. The first amendment incarnation of it applies against the government, but the first amendment isn’t the whole of free speech.
- jeroenhd 3y ago
  The first ammendment doesn't apply to a Dutch court case. Of course there's article 7 of the Dutch constitution (as a guide for laws related to speech, not necessarily for individual rights, as judges cannot directly use them in most judgements) and article 10 of the ECHR (which comes with loads of exceptions like ensuring protection of morals) but those are still directed at states and governments rather than individual freedoms. Of course the concept of freedom of expression goes beyond the legal definition, but the legal definition is the only one that's relevant as that's the freedom you actually have.

wvh 3y ago

You can also say true things that do not fall under free speech, like publishing somebody's home address. Clearly there's some balance to be found in releasing details about intimate relationships.

evandale 3y ago
> Clearly there's some balance to be found in releasing details about intimate relationships Yes and the current laws are adequate enough to address this. We don't need to restrict everybody's free speech because 1 person published their ex's home address. Stay out of my life and my business and punish the people for breaking the law. That's not a good reason to take the ability to be anonymous away from everyone.