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"Virtual Box wasn't capturing my Windows Key entries" What the hell is a Windows key? Why would an OS be built to expect a special OS specific key? To be hon

"Virtual Box wasn't capturing my Windows Key entries" What the hell is a Windows key? Why would an OS be built to expect a special OS specific key? To be honest, I know what a windows key is, but I haven't used a windows key keyboard in my lifetime. I can get to my Windows 7 start menu by clicking on it, and failing that, CTRL-ESC will work. If there's nothing to click on, and I'm now forced to CTRL-ESC all the time, I can live with it, but it's definitely not something I would call an improvement. I know there's a familiarization burden with every new major release, but I'm hearing about an awful lot of extremely inconvenient sounding issues with this one. I wonder how hard it would've been to include an OS-wide "tablet mode" / "desktop mode" toggle.

bunderbunder 15y ago
To be honest, I know what a windows key is, but I haven't used a windows key keyboard in my lifetime. On an Apple keyboard, the Command key does the job. (Or vice versa, if you use a PC keyboard on a Mac.) To be honest, I haven't seen a keyboard that was manufactured since the late 90s and didn't have a 3rd key down there (whether it's Command or Windows). Even the Happy Hacking keyboard has one.
dpark 15y ago
>Why would an OS be built to expect a special OS specific key? You mean, like the Ctrl and Esc keys you mention two sentences later? There are quite a few "special" keys on every computer keyboard. The OS is quite justified in assuming that your keyboard has the requisite ones.
- grannyg00se 15y ago
  Obviously "special" keys are expected. CTRL and ESC are used in many operating systems. The point is that an OS shouldn't expect a key specifically for that os. Do we now need an Ubuntu key? Or a CentOS key? Or maybe a more general "Linux key" would be appropriate? No thank you. I expect Apple to have an Apple key on their keyboard, because their hardware is tied to their OS and you buy into their entire ecosystem when you buy their desktop. But Windows doesn't work that way. Many people use Windows on the same hardware that they use other operating systems. So a Windows key doesn't make sense there. I suppose it's just a naming issue and most operating systems now recognize the key as a "meta" key, but it would be nice if its name wasn't tied to a particular operating system. And it's especially hard to do that if it has a particular operating system's logo on it. I guess people became accustomed to this a long time ago and I should just "let it go".
  - dpark 15y ago
    > The point is that an OS shouldn't expect a key specifically for that os. So don't call it the "Windows" key. Call it the "Command" key instead. That's what Apple does, and it's the same key. You can bind the key on Linux as well, and you can even get a "Tux" key if you prefer. > Many people use Windows on the same hardware that they use other operating systems No they do not. Installing multiple operating systems on a single hardware system is very much a power user behavior, and even there it's restricted to a small set of power users. Even having multiple desktop operating systems in a single household is uncommon.
    - grannyg00se 15y ago
      "No they do not. Installing multiple operating systems on a single hardware system is very much a power user behavior, " I'm not talking about multiple simultaneous installs. I'm talking about the hardware being the same across operating systems. If I'm buying hardware to set up a linux machine, I will go to the same place as if I were setting up a windows machine. So I guess I could take your advice in that case and try to find a Tux key keyboard. Got it. But I wouldn't. Because I don't use full size keyboards. Which brings me to the original and more significant point. I don't think the operating system should expect this "command" key at all. If people use it, that's fine. But it sounds like Windows 8 might be a serious PITA without a "command key" keyboard.
      - dpark 15y ago
        > I'm not talking about multiple simultaneous installs. I'm talking about the hardware being the same across operating systems. If I'm buying hardware to set up a linux machine, I will go to the same place as if I were setting up a windows machine. Building a machine from scratch is not normal user behavior. You can't talk about "many people" and then describe uncommon behavior as if it's typical. The vast majority of users buy off-the-shelf computers with bundled keyboards. Power users who build their own machines should know to buy the right keyboard. > But I wouldn't. Because I don't use full size keyboards. What keyboard do you use that doesn't include the Windows key? A compact keyboard does not imply a lack of a Windows key. > I don't think the operating system should expect this "command" key at all. Why do you believe this? How is the Windows/Command key any different from the Control key or the Escape key or Alt key or any of the Function keys or the other "special" keys? Why is it reasonable for the OS to expect those other keys will be present but not the "Windows" key that's present on virtually every keyboard that's shipped in the past 15 years?
faulty 15y ago
The widnows key (AKA the MOD4 key) is not OS-specific. It just has a windows logo on most keyboards.
gaius 15y ago
It's called the Meta key in other OS's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meta_key http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meta_key The old joke: Escape Meta Alt Control Shift
- lloeki 15y ago
  Actually it's called the Super key[0], as Meta is more like Alt, Esc, Control or Command, depending on the platform/context. [0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_key_(keyboard_button) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_key_(keyboard_button)
  - gaius 15y ago
    No, the Windows key sets MOD4, same as the Meta key did/does on the original MIT keyboards.
    - sukuriant 15y ago
      Yet in linux when I assign things to [Windows] + letter, it says [Super] + letter. Super + L is my friend for locking the screen
      - gaius 15y ago
        That is merely your distro trying to be cute. Ubuntu?
        sukuriant 15y ago
        Yeah, that'd be Ubuntu... too lazy to use the other distros; and, I love apt.
        lloeki 15y ago
        That has nothing to do with Ubuntu: run xev, press windows/command keys, see output. By default xorg binds the keys to Super_{L,R}. Besides, Open any terminal emulator and Alt/Option either behaves as Meta by default or has the option to do so, e.g. Terminal.app). For all current practical purposes and in most default cases Alt behaves as either Alt or Meta depending on the context and Super as Super. Even emacs folks (maybe the biggest piece of software in use today relying the most heavily on Meta) agree on that [0]. Meta really does not exist anymore and all mappings one can come up with (whether they are using Alt or Super) are merely fallbacks. [0] http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/MetaKeyProblems http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/MetaKeyProblems

bunderbunder 15y ago

To be honest, I know what a windows key is, but I haven't used a windows key keyboard in my lifetime. On an Apple keyboard, the Command key does the job. (Or vice versa, if you use a PC keyboard on a Mac.) To be honest, I haven't seen a keyboard that was manufactured since the late 90s and didn't have a 3rd key down there (whether it's Command or Windows). Even the Happy Hacking keyboard has one.

dpark 15y ago

>Why would an OS be built to expect a special OS specific key? You mean, like the Ctrl and Esc keys you mention two sentences later? There are quite a few "special" keys on every computer keyboard. The OS is quite justified in assuming that your keyboard has the requisite ones.

grannyg00se 15y ago
Obviously "special" keys are expected. CTRL and ESC are used in many operating systems. The point is that an OS shouldn't expect a key specifically for that os. Do we now need an Ubuntu key? Or a CentOS key? Or maybe a more general "Linux key" would be appropriate? No thank you. I expect Apple to have an Apple key on their keyboard, because their hardware is tied to their OS and you buy into their entire ecosystem when you buy their desktop. But Windows doesn't work that way. Many people use Windows on the same hardware that they use other operating systems. So a Windows key doesn't make sense there. I suppose it's just a naming issue and most operating systems now recognize the key as a "meta" key, but it would be nice if its name wasn't tied to a particular operating system. And it's especially hard to do that if it has a particular operating system's logo on it. I guess people became accustomed to this a long time ago and I should just "let it go".
- dpark 15y ago
  > The point is that an OS shouldn't expect a key specifically for that os. So don't call it the "Windows" key. Call it the "Command" key instead. That's what Apple does, and it's the same key. You can bind the key on Linux as well, and you can even get a "Tux" key if you prefer. > Many people use Windows on the same hardware that they use other operating systems No they do not. Installing multiple operating systems on a single hardware system is very much a power user behavior, and even there it's restricted to a small set of power users. Even having multiple desktop operating systems in a single household is uncommon.
  - grannyg00se 15y ago
    "No they do not. Installing multiple operating systems on a single hardware system is very much a power user behavior, " I'm not talking about multiple simultaneous installs. I'm talking about the hardware being the same across operating systems. If I'm buying hardware to set up a linux machine, I will go to the same place as if I were setting up a windows machine. So I guess I could take your advice in that case and try to find a Tux key keyboard. Got it. But I wouldn't. Because I don't use full size keyboards. Which brings me to the original and more significant point. I don't think the operating system should expect this "command" key at all. If people use it, that's fine. But it sounds like Windows 8 might be a serious PITA without a "command key" keyboard.
    - dpark 15y ago
      > I'm not talking about multiple simultaneous installs. I'm talking about the hardware being the same across operating systems. If I'm buying hardware to set up a linux machine, I will go to the same place as if I were setting up a windows machine. Building a machine from scratch is not normal user behavior. You can't talk about "many people" and then describe uncommon behavior as if it's typical. The vast majority of users buy off-the-shelf computers with bundled keyboards. Power users who build their own machines should know to buy the right keyboard. > But I wouldn't. Because I don't use full size keyboards. What keyboard do you use that doesn't include the Windows key? A compact keyboard does not imply a lack of a Windows key. > I don't think the operating system should expect this "command" key at all. Why do you believe this? How is the Windows/Command key any different from the Control key or the Escape key or Alt key or any of the Function keys or the other "special" keys? Why is it reasonable for the OS to expect those other keys will be present but not the "Windows" key that's present on virtually every keyboard that's shipped in the past 15 years?

faulty 15y ago

The widnows key (AKA the MOD4 key) is not OS-specific. It just has a windows logo on most keyboards.

gaius 15y ago

It's called the Meta key in other OS's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meta_key http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meta_key The old joke: Escape Meta Alt Control Shift

lloeki 15y ago
Actually it's called the Super key[0], as Meta is more like Alt, Esc, Control or Command, depending on the platform/context. [0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_key_(keyboard_button) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_key_(keyboard_button)
- gaius 15y ago
  No, the Windows key sets MOD4, same as the Meta key did/does on the original MIT keyboards.
  - sukuriant 15y ago
    Yet in linux when I assign things to [Windows] + letter, it says [Super] + letter. Super + L is my friend for locking the screen
    - gaius 15y ago
      That is merely your distro trying to be cute. Ubuntu?
      - sukuriant 15y ago
        Yeah, that'd be Ubuntu... too lazy to use the other distros; and, I love apt.
      - lloeki 15y ago
        That has nothing to do with Ubuntu: run xev, press windows/command keys, see output. By default xorg binds the keys to Super_{L,R}. Besides, Open any terminal emulator and Alt/Option either behaves as Meta by default or has the option to do so, e.g. Terminal.app). For all current practical purposes and in most default cases Alt behaves as either Alt or Meta depending on the context and Super as Super. Even emacs folks (maybe the biggest piece of software in use today relying the most heavily on Meta) agree on that [0]. Meta really does not exist anymore and all mappings one can come up with (whether they are using Alt or Super) are merely fallbacks. [0] http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/MetaKeyProblems http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/MetaKeyProblems