4 ms·

High gas prices and recessions are two of the best predictors of politicians losing elections. Degrowth will produce much more of both.

jacquesm 3y ago
The earth doesn't actually care about gas prices, recessions or elections and we either adapt or we will be adapted forcibly and with far less choice about the outcome.
Paul-Craft 3y ago
That has nothing to do with the merits of the solution, i.e. whether it will work or not. Meanwhile no alternative exists that will stop us from reaching 2C of warming.
- ryandrake 3y ago
  It doesn’t matter if a solution is correct or will work, if it can never be implemented because it is politically impossible.
  - jacquesm 3y ago
    The ultimate conclusion then is that that political system will be broken on the wheel of physical reality. Adapt or die is a pretty blunt statement but it is nonetheless true.
    - ryandrake 3y ago
      I believed this too, until COVID. Millions weren't even willing to do so much as wear a tiny piece of cloth over their faces. If they can't even put up with that minuscule level of discomfort for the greater good, do you think they will ever make the sacrifices needed to slow climate change? No way! No solution to climate change is politically viable if it means the general public needs to lift a finger. We know they just won't do anything, mandated or not. The ocean could be coming into their living room, and they will sit there, watching it, scowling about their political opponents. We had millions of people literally willing to spread a deadly disease and die, just to irritate the other side. Not only will these people do nothing in the face of climate change, they will do whatever they can to accelerate it if they believe their ideological opponents want to stop it.
      - jacquesm 3y ago
        I think we're on the same page, I just meant 'die' in a slightly more literal sense than you probably took it. And yes, it is incredibly sad. Somewhere in the last century we went completely off the rails to the point where we are now endangering our world and have no tools to do anything about it. It's like watching a slow motion train wreck, unfortunately both you and I are on the train and we can't get off.

jacquesm 3y ago

The earth doesn't actually care about gas prices, recessions or elections and we either adapt or we will be adapted forcibly and with far less choice about the outcome.

Paul-Craft 3y ago

That has nothing to do with the merits of the solution, i.e. whether it will work or not. Meanwhile no alternative exists that will stop us from reaching 2C of warming.

ryandrake 3y ago
It doesn’t matter if a solution is correct or will work, if it can never be implemented because it is politically impossible.
- jacquesm 3y ago
  The ultimate conclusion then is that that political system will be broken on the wheel of physical reality. Adapt or die is a pretty blunt statement but it is nonetheless true.
  - ryandrake 3y ago
    I believed this too, until COVID. Millions weren't even willing to do so much as wear a tiny piece of cloth over their faces. If they can't even put up with that minuscule level of discomfort for the greater good, do you think they will ever make the sacrifices needed to slow climate change? No way! No solution to climate change is politically viable if it means the general public needs to lift a finger. We know they just won't do anything, mandated or not. The ocean could be coming into their living room, and they will sit there, watching it, scowling about their political opponents. We had millions of people literally willing to spread a deadly disease and die, just to irritate the other side. Not only will these people do nothing in the face of climate change, they will do whatever they can to accelerate it if they believe their ideological opponents want to stop it.
    - jacquesm 3y ago
      I think we're on the same page, I just meant 'die' in a slightly more literal sense than you probably took it. And yes, it is incredibly sad. Somewhere in the last century we went completely off the rails to the point where we are now endangering our world and have no tools to do anything about it. It's like watching a slow motion train wreck, unfortunately both you and I are on the train and we can't get off.