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I don't think the Aryan invasion theory was appropriate to justify colonization, but I'm also not sure this constitutes evidence against it. In any case, Sanskr

I don't think the Aryan invasion theory was appropriate to justify colonization, but I'm also not sure this constitutes evidence against it. In any case, Sanskrit is far more archaic than Hittite, and even with the genetic evidence it doesn't make sense that Hittite would precede the Indo-aryan languages. The Bhagavad Gita is quite clear about the cultures of the old Aryan peoples. They were nomadic, cowherding peoples, who were highly patriarchal, that valued prowess in battle and the ability to kill your enemies ruthlessly, even if they were members of your own family. They were probably white because Tocharian speakers in western China are depicted in cave painting as having blond hair and blue eyes[0], a group of people who completely split off the rest of the Indo-European tribal peoples well before they entered the subcontinent. Is Nazi race science as a justification for brutal genocide and the destruction of labor organizing something I agree with? No, but the Nazis understood that anyone can spin a story to justify any political regime, and that whoever is in power is constantly inventing their own histories to justify their power. None of these things are very meaningful, in the end. Language, culture, and history is far more diverse than the question of Yamnaya genetics. [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tocharian_languages#/media/File:Royal_family,_Cave_17,_Kizil_(family_detail,_retouched),_Hermitage_Museum.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tocharian_languages#/media/Fil...

cscurmudgeon 3y ago
> The Bhagavad Gita is quite clear about the cultures of the old Aryan peoples. They were nomadic, cowherding peoples, who were highly patriarchal, that valued prowess in battle and the ability to kill your enemies ruthlessly, even if they were members of your own family. Not this again. This is an old missionaries tale. There are descriptions of large cities and palaces in Mahabharata (of which Gita is part). Nomads don't construct palaces and large cities. Also, the Gita is about duty to preserve good not killing. (A few months ago I debunked a similar comment on this site lol) https://vedicfeed.com/places-mentioned-in-mahabharata/ https://vedicfeed.com/places-mentioned-in-mahabharata/
- ffhhttt 3y ago
  I’m not sure how do these things contradict each other? Nomadic civilizations can definitely transition to almost fully sedentary ones and ‘start building palaces’ while preserving some of their cultural history and social norms.
  - cscurmudgeon 3y ago
    The comment I replied to implies no such transition happened. Also the Bhagavad Gita is a short read, you can read and find there are no mentions of nomadic lifestyles in that.
    - DiscourseFan 3y ago
      I did not say that they never transitioned to a pastoral lifestyle, I said that the original peoples clearly migrated as a nomadic tribe, which is substantiated by a lot of evidence. Unless you believe in the Out of India Theory which is peddled by members of the far-right in order to justify their political supremacy.
      - cmrdporcupine 3y ago
        From reading David Anthony's book and others... The evidence seems to be that early proto-Indo-Iranian speakers traded and blended with the Bactria–Margiana Archaeological Complex (BMAC) in central Asia on their way to the subcontinent and the Persian Gulf. BMAC was a settled agrarian society with extensive trade networks and an unknown spoken language that probably lent a whole pile of words and concepts into the Indo-Aryan culture (multiple times in different eras, too, apparently). A somewhat similar process likely happened in the settling of Europe the Yamnaya culture passed through, integrated with, displaced, or dominated the Cucuteni–Trypillia culture and other settled agriculture societies in the Danube & Balkans regions. Likely by the time early Indic speakers came to dominate in the subcontinent they were at least in part a non-pastoral culture, maybe with the typical Indo-European tri-partite class system with warrior-priest-farmer, but all proto-Indo-Aryan speaking.
    - ffhhttt 3y ago

cscurmudgeon 3y ago

> The Bhagavad Gita is quite clear about the cultures of the old Aryan peoples. They were nomadic, cowherding peoples, who were highly patriarchal, that valued prowess in battle and the ability to kill your enemies ruthlessly, even if they were members of your own family. Not this again. This is an old missionaries tale. There are descriptions of large cities and palaces in Mahabharata (of which Gita is part). Nomads don't construct palaces and large cities. Also, the Gita is about duty to preserve good not killing. (A few months ago I debunked a similar comment on this site lol) https://vedicfeed.com/places-mentioned-in-mahabharata/ https://vedicfeed.com/places-mentioned-in-mahabharata/

ffhhttt 3y ago
I’m not sure how do these things contradict each other? Nomadic civilizations can definitely transition to almost fully sedentary ones and ‘start building palaces’ while preserving some of their cultural history and social norms.
- cscurmudgeon 3y ago
  The comment I replied to implies no such transition happened. Also the Bhagavad Gita is a short read, you can read and find there are no mentions of nomadic lifestyles in that.
  - DiscourseFan 3y ago
    I did not say that they never transitioned to a pastoral lifestyle, I said that the original peoples clearly migrated as a nomadic tribe, which is substantiated by a lot of evidence. Unless you believe in the Out of India Theory which is peddled by members of the far-right in order to justify their political supremacy.
    - cmrdporcupine 3y ago
      From reading David Anthony's book and others... The evidence seems to be that early proto-Indo-Iranian speakers traded and blended with the Bactria–Margiana Archaeological Complex (BMAC) in central Asia on their way to the subcontinent and the Persian Gulf. BMAC was a settled agrarian society with extensive trade networks and an unknown spoken language that probably lent a whole pile of words and concepts into the Indo-Aryan culture (multiple times in different eras, too, apparently). A somewhat similar process likely happened in the settling of Europe the Yamnaya culture passed through, integrated with, displaced, or dominated the Cucuteni–Trypillia culture and other settled agriculture societies in the Danube & Balkans regions. Likely by the time early Indic speakers came to dominate in the subcontinent they were at least in part a non-pastoral culture, maybe with the typical Indo-European tri-partite class system with warrior-priest-farmer, but all proto-Indo-Aryan speaking.
  - ffhhttt 3y ago