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Once again it is completely ignored that the whole online identity thing is a solved problem, in the EU. Millions of Europeans use eIDAS apps daily and enjoy si

Once again it is completely ignored that the whole online identity thing is a solved problem, in the EU. Millions of Europeans use eIDAS apps daily and enjoy single-sign-on across EU websites, can sign docs, make payments etc. etc. And there’s no privacy issues thanks to the GDPR, which it turns out is not just about cookie popups The tech is there, it works today, without crypto bullshit, and it is extremely useful. But since nobody became a billionaire out of it, nobody talks about it

zajio1am 3y ago
Are eIDAS identity services even interoperable for private service providers? AFAIK public service providers use national portals that aggregate identity providers, but private service providers must have a contract with identity providers. > But since nobody became a billionaire out of it, nobody talks about it Here in CZ, the law was setup in a way that gives advantage to banks compared to other identity providers, these banks created one consortium, which is essentially monopolistic provider, with ~80 % market share, asking private services providers significant money for identity services.
nmat 3y ago
Reminds how US centric a lot of crypto companies are. An advantage of crypto that often comes up is “instant and cheap money transfers”. In the UK, I transfer money to my friends instantaneously and for free using just my bank account.
- AnthonyMouse 3y ago
  > In the UK, I transfer money to my friends instantaneously and for free using just my bank account. You can do the same thing in the US. The problem is that businesses can't easily do this without collecting bank routing information from customers, which is effectively "secret" because it allows anyone to debit money directly from their bank account, so they're reluctant to provide it. What's needed is a low- or no-fee system for requesting payments from someone without collecting any secrets from them. The technology to do this is not hard -- use public key cryptography, or just require the customer to approve merchants before they can make debits. But the customer's bank has little incentive to implement this because the customer won't choose a different bank over it and meanwhile the banks own the credit processing networks charging the high fees. Which is why people are looking for an external solution.
  - 01acheru 3y ago
    I don't know how it works outside of Italy but here we can make instantaneous bank transfers for free or a really small (and capped fee) to anyone just knowing their bank account without leaking any secret information. How does it work in the US?
    - AnthonyMouse 3y ago
      You go to your bank's website and input the other person's bank routing information to make a transfer. But with the same information someone can also make a withdrawal, which is problematic.
      - 01acheru 3y ago
        Whoa... that's totally broken...
  - MattPalmer1086 3y ago
    I think you are talking about a different use case to the parent. You seem to be talking about authorising businesses to take money from my account without needing further approval. A direct debit. Parent is talking about transferring money to someone else's account, which is easy and requires no secrets or authorisation.
    - wmf 3y ago
      It would be nice to have both.
      - MattPalmer1086 3y ago
        Both already exist. Setting up a direct debit generally only involves filling in a form. Sending money to someone else is as simple as authorising a payment to them with their account details. What problem needs to be solved?
        3y ago
- somsak2 3y ago
  You can also do this in the US with Zelle. Of course there's app alternatives like Venmo or PayPal too -- I don't really understand the importance / benefit of 'just using a bank account.'
AnthonyMouse 3y ago
The whole online identity thing was a solved problem well before that. You sign up for a service, you give them your email address and create a password, now they know who you are because you have your password, and if you forget your password they send a reset code to your email. Add 2FA as you like. That allows you to authenticate with the service you're doing business with, which is all that ever needs to happen because centralized identity systems are just an attack for correlating your activity across services and devices.
pluto_modadic 3y ago
I think how crypto springs because commercial systems are lacking (like, Mint/Plaid compared to the OFX standard for gnucash). The reason crypto seems viable is because US banking sucks. The reason these ID schemes exist is because the US doesn't have eIDAS.
rvz 3y ago
Can’t wait for the EU to introduce a digital euro CBDC just like the digital yuan in China. /s Soon it will impose savings limits, expiration dates to incentivise spending [0] all tied up to your digital identity. When governments propose extremely unpopular policies on its people, it will be certainly used against their own people to quell and discourage protests much easily than before. You will then realise that all these digital identity solutions such as eIDAS, digital euro and wallets are essentially no better than Worldcoin. Governments around the world would love to do exactly what Worldcoin is doing for onboarding to a future CBDC. No thanks and absolutely no deal to both of that. [0] https://reclaimthenet.org/digital-euro-spending-saving-limits https://reclaimthenet.org/digital-euro-spending-saving-limit...

zajio1am 3y ago

Are eIDAS identity services even interoperable for private service providers? AFAIK public service providers use national portals that aggregate identity providers, but private service providers must have a contract with identity providers. > But since nobody became a billionaire out of it, nobody talks about it Here in CZ, the law was setup in a way that gives advantage to banks compared to other identity providers, these banks created one consortium, which is essentially monopolistic provider, with ~80 % market share, asking private services providers significant money for identity services.

nmat 3y ago

Reminds how US centric a lot of crypto companies are. An advantage of crypto that often comes up is “instant and cheap money transfers”. In the UK, I transfer money to my friends instantaneously and for free using just my bank account.

AnthonyMouse 3y ago
> In the UK, I transfer money to my friends instantaneously and for free using just my bank account. You can do the same thing in the US. The problem is that businesses can't easily do this without collecting bank routing information from customers, which is effectively "secret" because it allows anyone to debit money directly from their bank account, so they're reluctant to provide it. What's needed is a low- or no-fee system for requesting payments from someone without collecting any secrets from them. The technology to do this is not hard -- use public key cryptography, or just require the customer to approve merchants before they can make debits. But the customer's bank has little incentive to implement this because the customer won't choose a different bank over it and meanwhile the banks own the credit processing networks charging the high fees. Which is why people are looking for an external solution.
- 01acheru 3y ago
  I don't know how it works outside of Italy but here we can make instantaneous bank transfers for free or a really small (and capped fee) to anyone just knowing their bank account without leaking any secret information. How does it work in the US?
  - AnthonyMouse 3y ago
    You go to your bank's website and input the other person's bank routing information to make a transfer. But with the same information someone can also make a withdrawal, which is problematic.
    - 01acheru 3y ago
      Whoa... that's totally broken...
- MattPalmer1086 3y ago
  I think you are talking about a different use case to the parent. You seem to be talking about authorising businesses to take money from my account without needing further approval. A direct debit. Parent is talking about transferring money to someone else's account, which is easy and requires no secrets or authorisation.
  - wmf 3y ago
    It would be nice to have both.
    - MattPalmer1086 3y ago
      Both already exist. Setting up a direct debit generally only involves filling in a form. Sending money to someone else is as simple as authorising a payment to them with their account details. What problem needs to be solved?
      - 3y ago
somsak2 3y ago
You can also do this in the US with Zelle. Of course there's app alternatives like Venmo or PayPal too -- I don't really understand the importance / benefit of 'just using a bank account.'

AnthonyMouse 3y ago

The whole online identity thing was a solved problem well before that. You sign up for a service, you give them your email address and create a password, now they know who you are because you have your password, and if you forget your password they send a reset code to your email. Add 2FA as you like. That allows you to authenticate with the service you're doing business with, which is all that ever needs to happen because centralized identity systems are just an attack for correlating your activity across services and devices.

pluto_modadic 3y ago

I think how crypto springs because commercial systems are lacking (like, Mint/Plaid compared to the OFX standard for gnucash). The reason crypto seems viable is because US banking sucks. The reason these ID schemes exist is because the US doesn't have eIDAS.

rvz 3y ago

Can’t wait for the EU to introduce a digital euro CBDC just like the digital yuan in China. /s Soon it will impose savings limits, expiration dates to incentivise spending [0] all tied up to your digital identity. When governments propose extremely unpopular policies on its people, it will be certainly used against their own people to quell and discourage protests much easily than before. You will then realise that all these digital identity solutions such as eIDAS, digital euro and wallets are essentially no better than Worldcoin. Governments around the world would love to do exactly what Worldcoin is doing for onboarding to a future CBDC. No thanks and absolutely no deal to both of that. [0] https://reclaimthenet.org/digital-euro-spending-saving-limits https://reclaimthenet.org/digital-euro-spending-saving-limit...