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No, you are confusing things together, because you believe in Whig Historiography. In reality, most of the west is declining due to bad ideas and the rejection

No, you are confusing things together, because you believe in Whig Historiography. In reality, most of the west is declining due to bad ideas and the rejection of good ideas that our people once held. To return to ideas and traditions would not be to go back in time - noone can do that, rather to reinvent, to rejuvenate, and revive the good ideas of the past in the context of the present.

gabereiser 3y ago
No, what you just said is confusing. You can’t take good ideas from the past and apply them to the present. Times have changed. The situation is different now. We need new ideas, new philosophies, new approaches, to the new problems we face today. To return to whatever golden years you are referring to is a return to the dark ages, no matter how noble your intent. What we need is for people to stop wishing for golden years and make these years golden. You aren’t going to do that with 1950s thinking. We need 2050 thinking.
- realjhol 3y ago
  Well a positive vision for the future would be some new ideological synthesis for Britain. It would involve remixing the good parts of 1950s thinking and learning the lessons from the things that have gone wrong in more recent decades. For example, in the 1950s people would have been appalled by the idea of mass immigration. In 2023, it is at the root of many of the UK's most significant problems: the housing crisis, the collapsing NHS, the destruction of the high trust society, the shattering of British identity into dozens of cultural enclaves. There is no honourable way to undo the mass immigration that has already happened. However, we can radically reduce it. At the current immigration rate, it is simply impossible for the rate of cultural integration to keep pace with the the rate of influx. At vastly reduced rates of immigration, our society would have space amd time to forge a new British identity. We have made choices that have proven themselves destructive, but it's not too late to revisit those mistakes, and then build anew from the ashes of the current decade.
  - gabereiser 3y ago
    It’s not just a British problem. Climate change, war, population growth, all play a factor. America and “The Wall”. Britain and the “mass refugee immigration”. Italy and theirs, Greece, the list goes on. People want to live, in security, and prosperity for their children and in some places of the world that’s not possible. So they migrate, immigrate, or become refugees of a war that only makes sense in the nonsensical. I’m not saying there aren’t problems, there are, but to put up walls and restrict humans and deny empathy is not the answer.
    - realjhol 3y ago
      This is an article of faith on your part. None of the immigrants are relocating directly because of climate changes, and a minority are moving because they are refugees from an active war zone. Many are fighting age men, adventurers and opportunists. Refugee laws were written a hundred years ago when there were frequent wars in Europe that would displace non-combattent women and children. They didn't have much option to go far beyond a neighbouring country and would likely go back home after the war was over. Our current system of laws requires us to host any refugee or immigrant from anywhere in the world on a permanent basis. There is no way this is sustainable economically, and much less so culturally. The government could fix this instantly, but they choose not to.
      - crxn23 3y ago
        Refugee laws were written in 1951 after people felt total shame at having kept out so many victims of the Nazis during World War 2. And the immigrants are not causing the burden on the NHS but the staffing of the NHS. Just check how many of the nurses in any London hospital are Filipino. Finally, house prices are not high because of immigrants but because governments keeps inflating the house price bubble. Any politician who tried a policy of "let's radically drop house prices" would find his career tanked by Boomer voters. Any other non-truths you want to drop to blame us immigrants for everything?
        realjhol 3y ago

gabereiser 3y ago

No, what you just said is confusing. You can’t take good ideas from the past and apply them to the present. Times have changed. The situation is different now. We need new ideas, new philosophies, new approaches, to the new problems we face today. To return to whatever golden years you are referring to is a return to the dark ages, no matter how noble your intent. What we need is for people to stop wishing for golden years and make these years golden. You aren’t going to do that with 1950s thinking. We need 2050 thinking.

realjhol 3y ago
Well a positive vision for the future would be some new ideological synthesis for Britain. It would involve remixing the good parts of 1950s thinking and learning the lessons from the things that have gone wrong in more recent decades. For example, in the 1950s people would have been appalled by the idea of mass immigration. In 2023, it is at the root of many of the UK's most significant problems: the housing crisis, the collapsing NHS, the destruction of the high trust society, the shattering of British identity into dozens of cultural enclaves. There is no honourable way to undo the mass immigration that has already happened. However, we can radically reduce it. At the current immigration rate, it is simply impossible for the rate of cultural integration to keep pace with the the rate of influx. At vastly reduced rates of immigration, our society would have space amd time to forge a new British identity. We have made choices that have proven themselves destructive, but it's not too late to revisit those mistakes, and then build anew from the ashes of the current decade.
- gabereiser 3y ago
  It’s not just a British problem. Climate change, war, population growth, all play a factor. America and “The Wall”. Britain and the “mass refugee immigration”. Italy and theirs, Greece, the list goes on. People want to live, in security, and prosperity for their children and in some places of the world that’s not possible. So they migrate, immigrate, or become refugees of a war that only makes sense in the nonsensical. I’m not saying there aren’t problems, there are, but to put up walls and restrict humans and deny empathy is not the answer.
  - realjhol 3y ago
    This is an article of faith on your part. None of the immigrants are relocating directly because of climate changes, and a minority are moving because they are refugees from an active war zone. Many are fighting age men, adventurers and opportunists. Refugee laws were written a hundred years ago when there were frequent wars in Europe that would displace non-combattent women and children. They didn't have much option to go far beyond a neighbouring country and would likely go back home after the war was over. Our current system of laws requires us to host any refugee or immigrant from anywhere in the world on a permanent basis. There is no way this is sustainable economically, and much less so culturally. The government could fix this instantly, but they choose not to.
    - crxn23 3y ago
      Refugee laws were written in 1951 after people felt total shame at having kept out so many victims of the Nazis during World War 2. And the immigrants are not causing the burden on the NHS but the staffing of the NHS. Just check how many of the nurses in any London hospital are Filipino. Finally, house prices are not high because of immigrants but because governments keeps inflating the house price bubble. Any politician who tried a policy of "let's radically drop house prices" would find his career tanked by Boomer voters. Any other non-truths you want to drop to blame us immigrants for everything?
      - realjhol 3y ago