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People with "acute mental ailments" are treated by psychologists not psychotherapists (not the same at all), and are often put on debilitating drugs for the res
by 3cats-in-a-coat 3y ago
People with "acute mental ailments" are treated by psychologists not psychotherapists (not the same at all), and are often put on debilitating drugs for the rest of their lives, not "cured". Never heard of people "cured" of schizophrenia or bipolar disorder etc. by psychotherapy.
Also, my argument doesn't "boil down" how you present it, you're severely misrepresenting what I said. The point is just because some people think it has helped them, doesn't mean it did. We're trying to attribute cause to effect, but we're often wrong about it. Our brain works by association, and associations are commonly misattributed.
This is why studying the field scientifically is important, rather than relying on "proof by testimonial". Especially the testimonials of fragile, suggestible people who would look for someone to lean on and trust by the very definition of their conditions.
- 3cats-in-a-coat 3y agoAnd I meant psychiatrists up there, which is yet another thing. Sigh.
- tptacek 3y agoPsychiatrists often deliver therapy in some kind of modality, and refer out to therapists for other modalities. It's like the distinction between your primary care physician and a radiologist. They're distinct practices, but it's not like they're somehow adversarial.
- 3cats-in-a-coat 3y agoI didn't say they're adversarial. The fact they neatly fill a gradient of niches, doesn't mean they're equally well supported scientifically, and equally useful. There are still places where your doctor would send you to the local homeopath. Doesn't make homeopathy science. Or to the local priest to get exorcised. Doesn't make exorcism science. It simply makes them culturally accepted. Cultural acceptance and science are not the same thing. Although often confused.
- tptacek 3y agoI don't know of any place in the US where a doctor would refer you to a homeopath. But virtually every doctor in the country would refer you to a psychiatrist, or directly to a therapist (one common way of providing mental health services is for PCPs to prescribe antidepressants and refer out for therapy), and virtually every psychiatrist would refer out to a therapist if they themselves didn't already provide compatible therapy modalities. So no, I don't think this is a good comparison at all.
- 3cats-in-a-coat 3y agoIn Germany for example, homeopathy is covered by their healthcare insurance. I don't know why "in the US" is an argument. Space outside the US exists, and time outside 2023 also exists, and both those points in spacetime inform us about the culture we create as a species. Just few decades ago you'd be referred for lobotomy in the US if you had... "unrest" I suppose. Or how about getting a red hot rod in the ear? Official cure for headache. But suddenly, here and now, we know everything, and nothing of anything we believe can possibly be false. It's always the same fallacy. One has to be skeptical of everything, unless there are hard facts. Unfortunately psychotherapy is not hard science, by which I mean most of it doesn't lay in discovery following the scientific method in a rigorous, reproducible way. In fact, the biggest component of the so called "replication crisis" comes from social studies, psychotherapy and psychology. It's full of papers proving "whatever" about human behavior.
- rendx 3y ago> In Germany for example, homeopathy is covered by their healthcare insurance. That's not true. Homeopathy in Germany is not part of official coverage. There are some select healthcare providers that refund some homeopathy costs, up to a few hundred euros annually, but the overwhelming majority does not even do that.
- 3cats-in-a-coat 3y agoSources on official policy and debates whether there should be reimbursements for homeopathy (the prior being: there are): https://www.iamexpat.de/expat-info/german-expat-news/german-health-minister-calls-cut-state-funded-homeopathy-treatment https://www.iamexpat.de/expat-info/german-expat-news/german-... https://undark.org/2020/03/16/homeopathy-globuli-germany/ https://undark.org/2020/03/16/homeopathy-globuli-germany/ https://www.dw.com/en/german-health-insurers-urged-to-end-homeopathy-refunds/a-49546319 https://www.dw.com/en/german-health-insurers-urged-to-end-ho...
- callalex 3y ago> People with "acute mental ailments" are treated by psychologists not psychotherapists (not the same at all), and are often put on debilitating drugs for the rest of their lives, not "cured". A prominent counter example to this is the treatment of PTSD.