4 ms·

What about sales tax, VAT, fuel levies, consumption taxes, gift taxes, inheritance taxes, etc. Your state or country may not have all of the above. But they are

by zo1 3y ago

What about sales tax, VAT, fuel levies, consumption taxes, gift taxes, inheritance taxes, etc. Your state or country may not have all of the above. But they are all there to tax you to ridiculous amounts but not at the "start". Same goes for withholding or "Pay as you earn" taxes which serve to not let you see how much taxes you are paying. No one will be happy if more than half their labour is taken from then. We can talk feel good and helping the community and needy all you want, but once you cross that threshold it will be very obvious to a lot of people that they have no choice in the matter and that it's a few steps away from slavery.

UncleMeat 3y ago
> What about sales tax, VAT, fuel levies, consumption taxes, gift taxes, inheritance taxes, etc. Your state or country may not have all of the above. Sales tax adds less than 1% to my overall effective tax rate. Sales taxes are disproportionately low for high earners because high earners save larger portions of their income rather than spending it. Gift and inheritance taxes don't start until eight figures. Not exactly something I'm especially worried about. > Same goes for withholding or "Pay as you earn" taxes which serve to not let you see how much taxes you are paying. ??? You can adjust your W4. The very wealthy also have considerably more flexibility with withholding since less of their income is W2 income from an employer. > No one will be happy if more than half their labour is taken from then. If I made the 7+ figures annually or whatever I needed to approach 50% effective taxation I'd be pretty damn happy. If my taxes were raised considerably without a change in my income it wouldn't really change my life either. I'd just retire early a little bit later. > it's a few steps away from slavery Extremely high earners who have very high effective tax rates have some options available to them. They can change careers or work less to reduce their income. They'd just earn an income that was more comparable to the typical worker. Or they could stop working entirely - extremely high earners have plenty of opportunity to save enough money that they could live off a typical budget indefinitely using their savings. Or they can advocate politically for policies they prefer - even by spending their money to influence elections via nearly unlimited and unbounded political contributions. Slaves can be arrested, tortured, and murdered for fleeing their captors. Heck, they can be tortured and murdered pretty much for no reason whatsoever. They can be raped and forced to bear their children of their captors. Their children (whether conceived through consent or through rape) can be permanently taken from them and also forced into slavery. They can have literacy denied to them. They can be worked to the bone in extreme conditions. And all this for a fat zero dollars in income over their entire lives. So I'd say that there are more than "a few steps" between these things.
boucher 3y ago
Good one. People making half a million dollars every year are just a few steps away from slavery because they're paying 50% in taxes.
- zo1 3y ago
  In my context, I live in a different country. Here the real middle-class is taxed way more strictly than in America, due to the high level of inequality skewing the stats. I'm no where near "well off" or "wealthy", but comfortable middle-class here, and I'm already at the 41% bracket on income only. Effective tax-rate I'm sitting somewhere around 35%, probably higher. And that extra 15% to get us to 50% is easy to arrive to if I take in to account all the various VAT, import taxes, sin taxes, property taxes, etc that are extracted from me by government. E.g. 2% of all my income goes to tax on my modest home, poof. And that's not even taking in to account all the "public" services I should be getting according to that "social contract" but instead paying the private sector for because they don't exist. Lovely things like fire, health, road maintenance, security, schooling, ambulance services, unemployment, social security for retirement, and who knows what else at this point. But sure, discard my overall point by making it seem like I said rich people are slaves.

by zo1 3y ago

UncleMeat 3y ago

> What about sales tax, VAT, fuel levies, consumption taxes, gift taxes, inheritance taxes, etc. Your state or country may not have all of the above. Sales tax adds less than 1% to my overall effective tax rate. Sales taxes are disproportionately low for high earners because high earners save larger portions of their income rather than spending it. Gift and inheritance taxes don't start until eight figures. Not exactly something I'm especially worried about. > Same goes for withholding or "Pay as you earn" taxes which serve to not let you see how much taxes you are paying. ??? You can adjust your W4. The very wealthy also have considerably more flexibility with withholding since less of their income is W2 income from an employer. > No one will be happy if more than half their labour is taken from then. If I made the 7+ figures annually or whatever I needed to approach 50% effective taxation I'd be pretty damn happy. If my taxes were raised considerably without a change in my income it wouldn't really change my life either. I'd just retire early a little bit later. > it's a few steps away from slavery Extremely high earners who have very high effective tax rates have some options available to them. They can change careers or work less to reduce their income. They'd just earn an income that was more comparable to the typical worker. Or they could stop working entirely - extremely high earners have plenty of opportunity to save enough money that they could live off a typical budget indefinitely using their savings. Or they can advocate politically for policies they prefer - even by spending their money to influence elections via nearly unlimited and unbounded political contributions. Slaves can be arrested, tortured, and murdered for fleeing their captors. Heck, they can be tortured and murdered pretty much for no reason whatsoever. They can be raped and forced to bear their children of their captors. Their children (whether conceived through consent or through rape) can be permanently taken from them and also forced into slavery. They can have literacy denied to them. They can be worked to the bone in extreme conditions. And all this for a fat zero dollars in income over their entire lives. So I'd say that there are more than "a few steps" between these things.

boucher 3y ago

Good one. People making half a million dollars every year are just a few steps away from slavery because they're paying 50% in taxes.

zo1 3y ago
In my context, I live in a different country. Here the real middle-class is taxed way more strictly than in America, due to the high level of inequality skewing the stats. I'm no where near "well off" or "wealthy", but comfortable middle-class here, and I'm already at the 41% bracket on income only. Effective tax-rate I'm sitting somewhere around 35%, probably higher. And that extra 15% to get us to 50% is easy to arrive to if I take in to account all the various VAT, import taxes, sin taxes, property taxes, etc that are extracted from me by government. E.g. 2% of all my income goes to tax on my modest home, poof. And that's not even taking in to account all the "public" services I should be getting according to that "social contract" but instead paying the private sector for because they don't exist. Lovely things like fire, health, road maintenance, security, schooling, ambulance services, unemployment, social security for retirement, and who knows what else at this point. But sure, discard my overall point by making it seem like I said rich people are slaves.