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This has to be one of the most confusing documentation sites I have ever seen. Maybe I just don't get it, since I never edited Wikipedia. Opening some of the p

This has to be one of the most confusing documentation sites I have ever seen. Maybe I just don't get it, since I never edited Wikipedia. Opening some of the pages at random, like https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z828 https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z828 https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z110 https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z110 There's a "try this function" section, which I couldn't get to take any sort of input on a few tries. It always ended up with a field that said "no results found" on typing things in it. There's a "current object" section, displaying some kind of alien script. Like, what is this? Is it supposed to tell me something? "Z1K1": "Z2", "Z2K1": { "Z1K1": "Z6", "Z6K1": "Z110" }, "Z2K2": { "Z1K1": "Z8", this goes on for quite a while Clearly I am not part of the target audience here. But who is?

vrandecic 3y ago
Thanks, that's really helpful to read! The page is still in a very early stage. You are right, the current object section is just confusing, we will remove it. Maybe a better start to understand what Wikifunctions does - but it is a very simple example too - is this function: https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Z10000 https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Z10000 The other functions that you found randomly are currently not well supported. We are working on it, to make it less confusing. Such feedback is very helpful.
- vrandecic 3y ago
  As planned, with our first scheduled weekly deployment, the JSON object is not being displayed anymore.
_aaed 3y ago
I think the Current Object section is specifying the hierarchy for the current page and also the hierarchy compared to its relatives. All the Z something identifiers are objects/pages/concepts
bawolff 3y ago
> Clearly I am not part of the target audience here. But who is? That would be my biggest criticism too. It seems like the target audience and use cases are ill defined, vauge and hand wavey. I dont think it knows really what it wants to be, other than definitely some sort of function store for abstract wikipedia, which also seems unnessarily complex. Quite frankly i get massive wikidata-second-system vibes from the whole thing.
capableweb 3y ago
> Clearly I am not part of the target audience here. But who is? Abstract Wikipedia authors/editors/developers is the target audience. As far as I can gather, this Wikifunctions is supposed to be a store for functions used to generate text based on data, so things can be written once and "automatically" translated to many languages, meaning you can cover more by stating "facts" and matching them to outputted language somehow.
moritzwarhier 3y ago
https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Wikifunctions:What_Wikifunctions_is_not https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Wikifunctions:What_Wikifu... > We are not competing with sites such as gist, or sites such as [...] esolangs.org
- pests 3y ago
  Somehow that still doesnt give enough counter examples to figure out what it is.
quiddity 3y ago
We didn’t want to announce Wikifunctions before you can edit it (what’s a wiki if you can’t edit it?). It is currently in locked-down testing. We have been slowly configuring and testing the wiki, the first new multilingual project in over 12 years! It is more complicated than a normal new wiki, in many ways. We are expecting to open it to broader editing in the next few days - on or after August 1. We are planning an announcement at that time. There are details of the deployment plan in our last newsletter: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Abstract_Wikipedia/Updates/2023-07-20 https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Abstract_... And a broad overview of the project at https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia/Overview https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia/Overview (And many more examples of functions at our older Beta-deployment location (also currently locked down) at https://wikifunctions.beta.wmflabs.org/wiki/Wikifunctions:Main_Page#Existing_function_examples https://wikifunctions.beta.wmflabs.org/wiki/Wikifunctions:Ma... ) I hope that context helps! [Disclaimer: I'm not a developer, but work with the team]
- djbusby 3y ago
  Disclosure, not disclaimer.
Lockal 3y ago
Huh, it took me a while to find that there is a UI for exactly this object on "Details" tab. I hope "Z1K1": "Z2" will be removed from UI soon. It is like "Q42 P31 Q5" for Wikidata - everyone understands it, but it is not the main interface. Basically, at this point of development, consider this as a storage of Python (https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z10004 https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z10004) or Javascript code (https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z10005 https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z10005). But instead of writing def format_person_info(name, surname, birth_date, death_date): return "{} {} ({}-{})".format(name, surname, birth_date, death_date) you need to 1) create a page that declares a public interface for your function: and there is no "camel case vs snake case": function name will be "Format person info" (and フォーマット担当者情報 in Japanese, and so on), with arguments: name, surname, birth date, death date (again, people can add translations) 2) create a set of tests 3) create an implementation using Zvalues (see links above for example) in public interface. If this is not the first version, implementation can be reviewed and approved by some reviewer.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- Eduard 3y ago
  > It is like "Q42 P31 Q5" for Wikidata - everyone understands it, ... I don't.
  - danbruc 3y ago
    It's a semantic triple [1] - subject, predicate, object - made out of Wikidata IDs. Some common ones one will quickly memorize and start to recognize if one works with Wikidata. Q42 is Douglas Adams [2], P31 is instance of [3], Q5 is human [4]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semantic_triple https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semantic_triple [2] https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q42 https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q42 [3] https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P31 https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P31 [4] https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q5 https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q5
    - 3y ago
starkparker 3y ago
Kind of surprised nobody's posted this in reply yet (or that these aren't linked to from anywhere I can find in the UI), but: on ZObjects: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia/ZObject https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia/ZObject on human-readable equivalents to the above: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia/Canonical_and_normal https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia/Canonical... It's all so very utopian.
8bitsrule 3y ago
I spent a few minutes scanning the 'intro' pages. If there were any function examples there, I missed it/them. A simple example or five of what in the hell a function can do might motivate some readers to want to dig deeper. I don't want to today.

vrandecic 3y ago

Thanks, that's really helpful to read! The page is still in a very early stage. You are right, the current object section is just confusing, we will remove it. Maybe a better start to understand what Wikifunctions does - but it is a very simple example too - is this function: https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Z10000 https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Z10000 The other functions that you found randomly are currently not well supported. We are working on it, to make it less confusing. Such feedback is very helpful.

vrandecic 3y ago
As planned, with our first scheduled weekly deployment, the JSON object is not being displayed anymore.

_aaed 3y ago

I think the Current Object section is specifying the hierarchy for the current page and also the hierarchy compared to its relatives. All the Z something identifiers are objects/pages/concepts

bawolff 3y ago

> Clearly I am not part of the target audience here. But who is? That would be my biggest criticism too. It seems like the target audience and use cases are ill defined, vauge and hand wavey. I dont think it knows really what it wants to be, other than definitely some sort of function store for abstract wikipedia, which also seems unnessarily complex. Quite frankly i get massive wikidata-second-system vibes from the whole thing.

capableweb 3y ago

> Clearly I am not part of the target audience here. But who is? Abstract Wikipedia authors/editors/developers is the target audience. As far as I can gather, this Wikifunctions is supposed to be a store for functions used to generate text based on data, so things can be written once and "automatically" translated to many languages, meaning you can cover more by stating "facts" and matching them to outputted language somehow.

moritzwarhier 3y ago

https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Wikifunctions:What_Wikifunctions_is_not https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Wikifunctions:What_Wikifu... > We are not competing with sites such as gist, or sites such as [...] esolangs.org

pests 3y ago
Somehow that still doesnt give enough counter examples to figure out what it is.

quiddity 3y ago

We didn’t want to announce Wikifunctions before you can edit it (what’s a wiki if you can’t edit it?). It is currently in locked-down testing. We have been slowly configuring and testing the wiki, the first new multilingual project in over 12 years! It is more complicated than a normal new wiki, in many ways. We are expecting to open it to broader editing in the next few days - on or after August 1. We are planning an announcement at that time. There are details of the deployment plan in our last newsletter: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Abstract_Wikipedia/Updates/2023-07-20 https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Abstract_... And a broad overview of the project at https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia/Overview https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia/Overview (And many more examples of functions at our older Beta-deployment location (also currently locked down) at https://wikifunctions.beta.wmflabs.org/wiki/Wikifunctions:Main_Page#Existing_function_examples https://wikifunctions.beta.wmflabs.org/wiki/Wikifunctions:Ma... ) I hope that context helps! [Disclaimer: I'm not a developer, but work with the team]

djbusby 3y ago
Disclosure, not disclaimer.

Lockal 3y ago

Huh, it took me a while to find that there is a UI for exactly this object on "Details" tab. I hope "Z1K1": "Z2" will be removed from UI soon. It is like "Q42 P31 Q5" for Wikidata - everyone understands it, but it is not the main interface. Basically, at this point of development, consider this as a storage of Python (https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z10004 https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z10004) or Javascript code (https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z10005 https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z10005). But instead of writing def format_person_info(name, surname, birth_date, death_date): return "{} {} ({}-{})".format(name, surname, birth_date, death_date) you need to 1) create a page that declares a public interface for your function: and there is no "camel case vs snake case": function name will be "Format person info" (and フォーマット担当者情報 in Japanese, and so on), with arguments: name, surname, birth date, death date (again, people can add translations) 2) create a set of tests 3) create an implementation using Zvalues (see links above for example) in public interface. If this is not the first version, implementation can be reviewed and approved by some reviewer.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
Eduard 3y ago
> It is like "Q42 P31 Q5" for Wikidata - everyone understands it, ... I don't.
- danbruc 3y ago
  It's a semantic triple [1] - subject, predicate, object - made out of Wikidata IDs. Some common ones one will quickly memorize and start to recognize if one works with Wikidata. Q42 is Douglas Adams [2], P31 is instance of [3], Q5 is human [4]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semantic_triple https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semantic_triple [2] https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q42 https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q42 [3] https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P31 https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P31 [4] https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q5 https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q5
  - 3y ago

starkparker 3y ago

Kind of surprised nobody's posted this in reply yet (or that these aren't linked to from anywhere I can find in the UI), but: on ZObjects: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia/ZObject https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia/ZObject on human-readable equivalents to the above: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia/Canonical_and_normal https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia/Canonical... It's all so very utopian.

8bitsrule 3y ago

I spent a few minutes scanning the 'intro' pages. If there were any function examples there, I missed it/them. A simple example or five of what in the hell a function can do might motivate some readers to want to dig deeper. I don't want to today.