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That's an essential point. At the same time the interpretation isn't completely random or unpredictable; we're all humans, with the same emotions, the same phys

That's an essential point. At the same time the interpretation isn't completely random or unpredictable; we're all humans, with the same emotions, the same physiological expressions of them, and the same internal responses to others' emotions. If you yell at someone anywhere, you can expect a certain range of emotional responses.

Throwaway128865 3y ago
[flagged]
Incipient 3y ago
Anecdotal counterpoint about "yelling". I was having a conversation with my mother at a Cafe. After 15mins the lady next to us, very genuinely and nicely, asked if we were ok because we were yelling at each other. We're Italian. That was our normal conversation! Someone's definition of aggressive discourse is definitely not everyone's.
- lodovic 3y ago
  That's why "Sir, please don't raise your voice" is so condescending and just a way to make it look like the other party is escalating.
  - robertlagrant 3y ago
    It's not just a way to do that. There's no point imputing a motivation you made up to the other person. It's doing exactly what you're saying they're guilty of: assuming.
    - Forgeties79 3y ago
      I get what they’re saying though. It often has an accompanying tone that’s borderline meme-like. It’s this thing we say the moment somebody takes a tone we take any issue with - or we think we can publicly proclaim we take issue with to get those around us on our side. I think many of us were guilty of this at least once and would acknowledge it if we really sat back and thought about it.
  - Forgeties79 3y ago
    The number of times I’ve seen people having a discussion with somebody online and they respond with “bro, calm down“ when the person has used no caps lock, no exclamation points, no particularly vitriolic language, is staggering and incredibly irritating.
    - whstl 3y ago
      Yep. The reason a lot of people do it is not to de-escalate. Quite the opposite. It's to give the appearance of de-escalation to outsiders while at the same time escalating the argument by using a fallacy to attempt to irritate the other person.
    - nineteen999 3y ago
      The obvious solution to this: spend less time reading pointless online arguments, and go outside and touch grass.
      - marci 3y ago
        to keep in line with the topic of communication styles and assumptions, this reads (to me) like a long version "bro, calm down" :).
      - Forgeties79 3y ago
        I’m not quite sure why what I said warranted such an incredibly rude response.
        nineteen999 3y ago
        Unfortunately words may be interpreted differently to how they are intended. My apologies if you took offence, as that wasn't my intention. I do often make snarky remarks on here but this wasn't meant to be one of them. I think this is part of what I'm getting at, text conversations are missing eye contact, body language cues etc, and along with the anonymity of the internet, a lot of things can be misinterpeted and disagreements can escalate quickly. I normally try not to engage in it too much - when the sun is shining and it's a beautiful day I'd rather be out exercising and patting peoples dogs than engaging in Internet drama. That is all.
- cassianoleal 3y ago
  My mom’s side of the family is descendent from Italians. Sunday barbecues were always full of yelling, shouting and cursing at each other. I miss those times. By the end of the day, everybody would hug and kiss and say goodbye until next Sunday.
- wolverine876 3y ago
  Yes, a good example. That's what I meant by a "range of emotional responses" (emphasis added). Also, our interpretation depends on context, such as in your example, and many other things. It's a bit argumentative to treat a short HN comment as a roadmap of every human interaction and find flaws.
galkk 3y ago
You know, sometimes it's very hard to judge. I'm of xUSSR descent, and sometimes when I see a group of chinese colleagues speaking together loudly, it is very weird to me, as soometimes they are so loud that if it was in Russian it would mean that the brawl could start any second. It is hard to judge sometimes. Even in written communication it is was told to me many times that many Russians, especially those with B1/B2 levels, as well as Jewish people are extremely direct, and it may be perceived as native speakers as rude, although it isn't meant to.
drewcoo 3y ago
That expectation of sameness is exactly the problem. We don't all express ourselves or react in the same ways, despite whatever our HR training videos claim. When someone "yells at me," I tend to think they're excited and it piques my interest in what they're saying. At the same time, they're excited so I expect them to omit some details and not give me a complete picture - I'm less discerning about the details. Was that one of the responses I'm supposed to feel?
- wolverine876 3y ago
  > We don't all express ourselves or react in the same ways I didn't say we did. I said there is a range of responses we can reasonably expect.

Throwaway128865 3y ago

[flagged]

Incipient 3y ago

Anecdotal counterpoint about "yelling". I was having a conversation with my mother at a Cafe. After 15mins the lady next to us, very genuinely and nicely, asked if we were ok because we were yelling at each other. We're Italian. That was our normal conversation! Someone's definition of aggressive discourse is definitely not everyone's.

lodovic 3y ago
That's why "Sir, please don't raise your voice" is so condescending and just a way to make it look like the other party is escalating.
- robertlagrant 3y ago
  It's not just a way to do that. There's no point imputing a motivation you made up to the other person. It's doing exactly what you're saying they're guilty of: assuming.
  - Forgeties79 3y ago
    I get what they’re saying though. It often has an accompanying tone that’s borderline meme-like. It’s this thing we say the moment somebody takes a tone we take any issue with - or we think we can publicly proclaim we take issue with to get those around us on our side. I think many of us were guilty of this at least once and would acknowledge it if we really sat back and thought about it.
- Forgeties79 3y ago
  The number of times I’ve seen people having a discussion with somebody online and they respond with “bro, calm down“ when the person has used no caps lock, no exclamation points, no particularly vitriolic language, is staggering and incredibly irritating.
  - whstl 3y ago
    Yep. The reason a lot of people do it is not to de-escalate. Quite the opposite. It's to give the appearance of de-escalation to outsiders while at the same time escalating the argument by using a fallacy to attempt to irritate the other person.
  - nineteen999 3y ago
    The obvious solution to this: spend less time reading pointless online arguments, and go outside and touch grass.
    - marci 3y ago
      to keep in line with the topic of communication styles and assumptions, this reads (to me) like a long version "bro, calm down" :).
    - Forgeties79 3y ago
      I’m not quite sure why what I said warranted such an incredibly rude response.
      - nineteen999 3y ago
        Unfortunately words may be interpreted differently to how they are intended. My apologies if you took offence, as that wasn't my intention. I do often make snarky remarks on here but this wasn't meant to be one of them. I think this is part of what I'm getting at, text conversations are missing eye contact, body language cues etc, and along with the anonymity of the internet, a lot of things can be misinterpeted and disagreements can escalate quickly. I normally try not to engage in it too much - when the sun is shining and it's a beautiful day I'd rather be out exercising and patting peoples dogs than engaging in Internet drama. That is all.
cassianoleal 3y ago
My mom’s side of the family is descendent from Italians. Sunday barbecues were always full of yelling, shouting and cursing at each other. I miss those times. By the end of the day, everybody would hug and kiss and say goodbye until next Sunday.
wolverine876 3y ago
Yes, a good example. That's what I meant by a "range of emotional responses" (emphasis added). Also, our interpretation depends on context, such as in your example, and many other things. It's a bit argumentative to treat a short HN comment as a roadmap of every human interaction and find flaws.

galkk 3y ago

You know, sometimes it's very hard to judge. I'm of xUSSR descent, and sometimes when I see a group of chinese colleagues speaking together loudly, it is very weird to me, as soometimes they are so loud that if it was in Russian it would mean that the brawl could start any second. It is hard to judge sometimes. Even in written communication it is was told to me many times that many Russians, especially those with B1/B2 levels, as well as Jewish people are extremely direct, and it may be perceived as native speakers as rude, although it isn't meant to.

drewcoo 3y ago

That expectation of sameness is exactly the problem. We don't all express ourselves or react in the same ways, despite whatever our HR training videos claim. When someone "yells at me," I tend to think they're excited and it piques my interest in what they're saying. At the same time, they're excited so I expect them to omit some details and not give me a complete picture - I'm less discerning about the details. Was that one of the responses I'm supposed to feel?

wolverine876 3y ago
> We don't all express ourselves or react in the same ways I didn't say we did. I said there is a range of responses we can reasonably expect.