4 ms·

The sun is considered carcinogenic, is it still moral to let your kids play outside? I think how carcinogenic a thing is, how the thing is delivered, and what

The sun is considered carcinogenic, is it still moral to let your kids play outside? I think how carcinogenic a thing is, how the thing is delivered, and what the thing is replacing, if anything, all matter, along with a hundred other factors. A highly carcinogenic habit that is addictive is morally much worse than a potentially carcinogenic sugar replacement, especially when you consider diabetics exist.

noduerme 3y ago
I don't see how morality comes into it when it's a choice made by adults. Marketing to children, sure. I'm a smoker and I own tobacco stocks. Hell, the dividends are helping me pay for my future cancer care. It's not like the taxes I pay on cigarettes [roughly $1800 / year, tax for my habit] are going to help with that.
- maxbond 3y ago
  I gotta ask, you're anticipating getting lung cancer? Like, this is a life event you're budgeting for? I'm not trying to judge your choices (I've smoked cigarettes at times), I'm just taken aback.
  - noduerme 3y ago
    I mean, I hope not. But I'd be a fool not to plan for the worst. [edit: you can phrase your question differently. I won't be offended and I'm happy to explain my view on it.] [edit 2] FWIW . I have a friend who's dying of lung cancer right now. I was real close to my uncle who died of it. There are a lot of things that can get ya, and I try to avoid all of them. People think this is ridiculous, but cancer is a cumulative risk. I don't eat processed foods or refined sugars. I get regular colonoscopies and checkups. I sleep with an air purifier. I just love to fucking smoke. Nine out of ten things I look forward to every day are cigarettes. Addiction gets a bad name. It's one of the most pleasant experiences you can have. Like sex. I'm not sure I'd want to live without it. If it doesn't hurt anyone else, e.g. I'm not robbing people for meth or ruining anyone else's lungs or raiding my kid's college fund, etc, I'm okay with it, because I'm going to die from something anyway. I'm 43 and don't really care to live past 60. Although I said this when I was smoking at 14 and didn't want to live past 30, so, who knows. Life's a gift. Wine, tobacco, chocolate, sex and foie gras are a few of the things that make it worth living.
    - johnnyApplePRNG 3y ago
      "If it doesn't hurt anyone else, e.g. I'm not robbing people for meth or ruining anyone else's lungs or raiding my kid's college fund, etc, I'm okay with it" "foie gras are a few of the things that make it worth living" ... you know what they do to the duck to make your foie gras, right?
      - noduerme 3y ago
        There are ethical ways to produce foie gras without force feeding. Anyway no, I don't think animals should suffer but this is beside the point about tobacco. It does line up nicely with my theory that a huge portion of the population enjoys feeling superior to others based on an off-the-rack set of identity politics masquerading as ethics, which hasn't changed much from the religiosity that preceded it.
        BobbyJo 3y ago
        > It does line up nicely with my theory that a huge portion of the population enjoys feeling superior to others based on an off-the-rack set of identity politics masquerading as ethics, which hasn't changed much from the religiosity that preceded it. Worrying about that makes you a victim of the same fallacy. You don't need to point out a vaguely defined group as bad or wrong. The same way "they" do it to look down on "you", that statement is "you" looking down on "them". In both cases, it's a moot observation.
        noduerme 3y ago
        It's not a worry, that most people are trying to prove their moral superiority (religious or secular). It's what I take into account when I choose to forgive them. Nor is it moot. Choosing to overlook their zeal is a conscious decision, because I know they aren't thinking for themselves and it's not entirely their fault.
        BobbyJo 3y ago
- BobbyJo 3y ago
  > I don't see how morality comes into it when it's a choice made by adults It's not black and white. Morality is a continuum of cause and effect. Shooting someone is bad. Shooting bullets recklessly and accidentally hitting someone is bad, but less so. Shooting a bunch of bullets safely but leaving the lead in the ground to leach into a neighboring properties well is bad, but lesser still. Etc. There are moral consequences to literally everything you do, it's just a matter of each individual's threshold for caring, and the social contract formed when people become part of a group. Some people care about the first and second order effects of smoking (increased burden on healthcare, land use competition, agricultural pollution, microplastic pollution, etc.) and some don't.
- xboxnolifes 3y ago
  > I don't see how morality comes into it when it's a choice made by adults Does morality not apply to adults? Are adults immune to human psychology?

noduerme 3y ago

I don't see how morality comes into it when it's a choice made by adults. Marketing to children, sure. I'm a smoker and I own tobacco stocks. Hell, the dividends are helping me pay for my future cancer care. It's not like the taxes I pay on cigarettes [roughly $1800 / year, tax for my habit] are going to help with that.

maxbond 3y ago
I gotta ask, you're anticipating getting lung cancer? Like, this is a life event you're budgeting for? I'm not trying to judge your choices (I've smoked cigarettes at times), I'm just taken aback.
- noduerme 3y ago
  I mean, I hope not. But I'd be a fool not to plan for the worst. [edit: you can phrase your question differently. I won't be offended and I'm happy to explain my view on it.] [edit 2] FWIW . I have a friend who's dying of lung cancer right now. I was real close to my uncle who died of it. There are a lot of things that can get ya, and I try to avoid all of them. People think this is ridiculous, but cancer is a cumulative risk. I don't eat processed foods or refined sugars. I get regular colonoscopies and checkups. I sleep with an air purifier. I just love to fucking smoke. Nine out of ten things I look forward to every day are cigarettes. Addiction gets a bad name. It's one of the most pleasant experiences you can have. Like sex. I'm not sure I'd want to live without it. If it doesn't hurt anyone else, e.g. I'm not robbing people for meth or ruining anyone else's lungs or raiding my kid's college fund, etc, I'm okay with it, because I'm going to die from something anyway. I'm 43 and don't really care to live past 60. Although I said this when I was smoking at 14 and didn't want to live past 30, so, who knows. Life's a gift. Wine, tobacco, chocolate, sex and foie gras are a few of the things that make it worth living.
  - johnnyApplePRNG 3y ago
    "If it doesn't hurt anyone else, e.g. I'm not robbing people for meth or ruining anyone else's lungs or raiding my kid's college fund, etc, I'm okay with it" "foie gras are a few of the things that make it worth living" ... you know what they do to the duck to make your foie gras, right?
    - noduerme 3y ago
      There are ethical ways to produce foie gras without force feeding. Anyway no, I don't think animals should suffer but this is beside the point about tobacco. It does line up nicely with my theory that a huge portion of the population enjoys feeling superior to others based on an off-the-rack set of identity politics masquerading as ethics, which hasn't changed much from the religiosity that preceded it.
      - BobbyJo 3y ago
        > It does line up nicely with my theory that a huge portion of the population enjoys feeling superior to others based on an off-the-rack set of identity politics masquerading as ethics, which hasn't changed much from the religiosity that preceded it. Worrying about that makes you a victim of the same fallacy. You don't need to point out a vaguely defined group as bad or wrong. The same way "they" do it to look down on "you", that statement is "you" looking down on "them". In both cases, it's a moot observation.
        noduerme 3y ago
        It's not a worry, that most people are trying to prove their moral superiority (religious or secular). It's what I take into account when I choose to forgive them. Nor is it moot. Choosing to overlook their zeal is a conscious decision, because I know they aren't thinking for themselves and it's not entirely their fault.
        BobbyJo 3y ago
BobbyJo 3y ago
> I don't see how morality comes into it when it's a choice made by adults It's not black and white. Morality is a continuum of cause and effect. Shooting someone is bad. Shooting bullets recklessly and accidentally hitting someone is bad, but less so. Shooting a bunch of bullets safely but leaving the lead in the ground to leach into a neighboring properties well is bad, but lesser still. Etc. There are moral consequences to literally everything you do, it's just a matter of each individual's threshold for caring, and the social contract formed when people become part of a group. Some people care about the first and second order effects of smoking (increased burden on healthcare, land use competition, agricultural pollution, microplastic pollution, etc.) and some don't.
xboxnolifes 3y ago
> I don't see how morality comes into it when it's a choice made by adults Does morality not apply to adults? Are adults immune to human psychology?