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We live in a winner takes all society in the USA. So if only the cream of the crop is allowed to contribute it’s where you want to put your resources.

uoaei 3y ago
"We should institutionalize and normalize the inequities that are already present rather than working to reduce them" is a bad idea.
- bt4u 3y ago
  [dead]
lexandstuff 3y ago
I disagree with you. The people that run society are the train drivers, the nurses, the local council staff, the garage handlers, etc. I'm sure some were considered "gifted" in school, but by definition, most likely not. It's those people who I want us to invest the most in. On the other hand, so what if a kid can solve a few maths problems faster than some other kid?
- zinodaur 3y ago
  I get what you are saying - but school is such a wonderful opportunity to expand your mind and find things to care about. If some kid is all juiced up and excited about something, its tragic for the school to stamp that out through neglect and busywork. IDK how we could build an education system that supports kids in excelling while not degenerating in to a caste system
  - prmoustache 3y ago
    you are talking like kids are excelling or not. Some are great at maths and shit at other classes and vice-versa.
- rowanG077 3y ago
  Exactly. However... The gifted people are the ones that discover electricity, That found the transistor, that allow is to build Integrated circuits at the nanometer scale, that found antibiotics that save millions of lives. Each of the people that made such strides are gifted. They saved millions/billions of people. A non-gifted nurse/train driver, garage handler etc simply can't even begin to compete. Not even if they had ten thousand hours per day.
  - tchaffee 3y ago
    Now take away all the nurses and every "non-gifted" contributer to society and see how much the gifted achieve. When you're spending half your time building and maintaining shelter, growing food, cooking, defending yourself from enemies, etc, how much time will you have left to innovate? We are social animals and it takes all of us to be as successful as we are.
    - rowanG077 3y ago
      No one is saying they aren't important or not needed. The point here is that there is a very large disproportionate focus on "not leaving children behind" while the gifted children are left to suffer. We just want gifted children to get the get just a little sliver of the same attention as badly performing students.
      - tchaffee 3y ago
        How are you measuring the proportions and then outcomes for society? I'm also not convinced the gifted children are left behind. Many brilliant contributors to society had a less than ideal education. I agree that publicly funded schools should cater to as wide a range of needs as possible. And at a certain point it becomes the parents' responsibility. If your child is highly gifted you may need to invest your own time and money beyond the basic education provided by the state. Another preferable option is to invest far more money in public education. That is difficult to get widespread support for.
        3y ago
- spoonjim 3y ago
  What does it matter if a train driver is 10% better at math? If a gifted mathematician is 10% better at math they discover a new result.
  - tchaffee 3y ago
    Sounds like we really need the train drivers if we want gifted mathematicians to be able to focus on that.
    - 9991 3y ago
      If our mathematicians are 10% better, we’re not going to have train drivers at all.
      - tchaffee 3y ago
        Train drivers will then move on to do more important work. You're always going to need other people if you want to progress at the fastest rate possible. Humans are social animals and all the great things we achieve are as a unit. An independent ant will never be able to compete with a colony.
        throw9away6 3y ago
        They won’t though because there are only so many spots in higher educated fields. So you have the problem of baristas with phds and train drivers with advanced math degrees
        tchaffee 3y ago
        Humans have never run out of work. By your reasoning trains themselves should have caused mass unemployment. With better tools we just do bigger stuff. This has been true for all of human history.
        IG_Semmelweiss 3y ago
        that's a problem of subsidized liberal education, not a problem of lack of education-based jobs
- icecream_so_gud 3y ago
  The people who run today's society use the creations of yesterday's gifted and motivated, along with their own, important, incremental updates. The people who create tomorrow's society are the gifted and motivated here now.
  - tchaffee 3y ago
    We all create tomorrow's society. Every individual is hugely dependent on other humans. And many of the people we are dependent on have quite mundane jobs. Devalue these folks enough and they will no longer do work and society will collapse. History shows us this and the result is the opposite of progress.

uoaei 3y ago

"We should institutionalize and normalize the inequities that are already present rather than working to reduce them" is a bad idea.

bt4u 3y ago
[dead]

lexandstuff 3y ago

I disagree with you. The people that run society are the train drivers, the nurses, the local council staff, the garage handlers, etc. I'm sure some were considered "gifted" in school, but by definition, most likely not. It's those people who I want us to invest the most in. On the other hand, so what if a kid can solve a few maths problems faster than some other kid?

zinodaur 3y ago
I get what you are saying - but school is such a wonderful opportunity to expand your mind and find things to care about. If some kid is all juiced up and excited about something, its tragic for the school to stamp that out through neglect and busywork. IDK how we could build an education system that supports kids in excelling while not degenerating in to a caste system
- prmoustache 3y ago
  you are talking like kids are excelling or not. Some are great at maths and shit at other classes and vice-versa.
rowanG077 3y ago
Exactly. However... The gifted people are the ones that discover electricity, That found the transistor, that allow is to build Integrated circuits at the nanometer scale, that found antibiotics that save millions of lives. Each of the people that made such strides are gifted. They saved millions/billions of people. A non-gifted nurse/train driver, garage handler etc simply can't even begin to compete. Not even if they had ten thousand hours per day.
- tchaffee 3y ago
  Now take away all the nurses and every "non-gifted" contributer to society and see how much the gifted achieve. When you're spending half your time building and maintaining shelter, growing food, cooking, defending yourself from enemies, etc, how much time will you have left to innovate? We are social animals and it takes all of us to be as successful as we are.
  - rowanG077 3y ago
    No one is saying they aren't important or not needed. The point here is that there is a very large disproportionate focus on "not leaving children behind" while the gifted children are left to suffer. We just want gifted children to get the get just a little sliver of the same attention as badly performing students.
    - tchaffee 3y ago
      How are you measuring the proportions and then outcomes for society? I'm also not convinced the gifted children are left behind. Many brilliant contributors to society had a less than ideal education. I agree that publicly funded schools should cater to as wide a range of needs as possible. And at a certain point it becomes the parents' responsibility. If your child is highly gifted you may need to invest your own time and money beyond the basic education provided by the state. Another preferable option is to invest far more money in public education. That is difficult to get widespread support for.
      - 3y ago
spoonjim 3y ago
What does it matter if a train driver is 10% better at math? If a gifted mathematician is 10% better at math they discover a new result.
- tchaffee 3y ago
  Sounds like we really need the train drivers if we want gifted mathematicians to be able to focus on that.
  - 9991 3y ago
    If our mathematicians are 10% better, we’re not going to have train drivers at all.
    - tchaffee 3y ago
      Train drivers will then move on to do more important work. You're always going to need other people if you want to progress at the fastest rate possible. Humans are social animals and all the great things we achieve are as a unit. An independent ant will never be able to compete with a colony.
      - throw9away6 3y ago
        They won’t though because there are only so many spots in higher educated fields. So you have the problem of baristas with phds and train drivers with advanced math degrees
        tchaffee 3y ago
        Humans have never run out of work. By your reasoning trains themselves should have caused mass unemployment. With better tools we just do bigger stuff. This has been true for all of human history.
        IG_Semmelweiss 3y ago
        that's a problem of subsidized liberal education, not a problem of lack of education-based jobs
icecream_so_gud 3y ago
The people who run today's society use the creations of yesterday's gifted and motivated, along with their own, important, incremental updates. The people who create tomorrow's society are the gifted and motivated here now.
- tchaffee 3y ago
  We all create tomorrow's society. Every individual is hugely dependent on other humans. And many of the people we are dependent on have quite mundane jobs. Devalue these folks enough and they will no longer do work and society will collapse. History shows us this and the result is the opposite of progress.