5 ms·

I was with you until you used the inflammatory ACAB term. It’s incredibly offensive and doesn’t help your argument.

by influx 3y ago

kacesensitive 3y ago
[flagged]
- gruez 3y ago
  So? How is that relevant to this discussion? You're the first person bringing the phrase up.
mschuster91 3y ago
Of course it is offensive. But so are all the "cops" who follow the Korpsgeist and keep their mouths shut when they see their colleagues openly break the law. Or those that spend 80% of their work time on "traffic stops" aka harassing Black people and other minorities. Remember George Floyd or all the others who died under suspicious circumstances without a bystander live-streaming their deaths.
- zgluck 3y ago
  Observation: Your profile says: You call it "alt-left", I proudly call it "Antifa".
  - robotresearcher 3y ago
    Attack the argument, not the person making it.
    - zgluck 3y ago
      Where was the attack? Does mschuster91 consider being associated with antifa (that's how I interpret it) an "attack"?
  - kergonath 3y ago
    How is it relevant?
    - zgluck 3y ago
      How is it not relevant?
      - mschuster91 3y ago
        It should not matter if one is on the right, center or left end of the spectrum to recognize that police should be an instutition that is accepted by all members of society - and that in most Western countries, public distrust in police is only growing over the last years due to (severe) misconduct, incompetence, selective enforcement and a lot of other problems. Of course, as someone associating with the far left side of politics and being politically active in general, I may be a bit more opinionated than many other people - but that fact alone is sad, given how important governmental institutions are for our daily lives.
        zgluck 3y ago
        Beyond that - did you disagree with me showing that part of your profile? Did you feel like your privacy was being violated, or something like that?
      - kergonath 3y ago
        Picking details from their profile is an attempt to discredit them without addressing their message. It’s a distraction at best, deceitful at worst. They could be the stupidest idiot and still be right occasionally, and vice versa. So if you have issues with the point they are making, engage with the point instead of looking for dog whistles. Also, seriously, you have to be in the US for antifa to be considered a bad thing somehow. I thought we decided back in the 1940s that we were all anti-fascists.
- Levitz 3y ago
  >Of course it is offensive. But so are all the "cops" who follow the Korpsgeist and keep their mouths shut when they see their colleagues openly break the law. I'm going to go out on a whim and say you wouldn't be comfortable saying that all black people are bastards because they don't stand out against their peers.
- influx 3y ago
  What about this cop who rescues a 9 year old kidnapped child? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jzHi6Xs0Qc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jzHi6Xs0Qc
  - eschaton 3y ago
    If they looked the other way while fellow cops violated peoples’ rights then they’re still a piece of shit, even if they also did their job and saved a kidnapped kid.
asimovfan 3y ago
[flagged]
megabless123 3y ago
Counterpoint: it's not offensive at all and helps lots of people to understand the inherent problems with policing.
- mycologos 3y ago
  It is offensive in the sense that most people don't like being called bastards, and it doesn't "[help] lots of people to understand the inherent problems with policing" because it is just a heightened way of saying "I think cops are bad". There's no information in it, just opinion. The idea that making a strong emotive statement and assuming your interlocutor is going to fill in all the reasoned arguments behind it is somehow brave or worthwhile is, I think, a problem with a lot of modern discussion.
  - yellowapple 3y ago
    > It is offensive in the sense that most people don't like being called bastards Their employment in a bastardizing profession is entirely voluntary, and they can forego that employment in favor of earning an honest living at their leisure.
    - smokelegend 3y ago
      Well said! That's a critical point in the discussion, this is a job is a voluntary occupation. Nobody forced them to take the position. At anytime they can quit and find other employment, but all it seems to often that most are complacent and complicit in the terms of their employment. Boss says do this, this and that, and they do it lockstep. There should be more discussion on the policy and procedures they use. i.e. "broken windows policy", "stop and frisk policy", "Tuesdays & Thursday" [ I have experienced this one personally, in New York city there is a known tactic that nyc police undercover (plain clothes officers) would stalk the streets harassing citizens in the name of crime prevention[Washington Heights, which is north of Harlem], and if you're darker skin, or just in a irradiated mood for being harassed weekly by these "crime stoppers", you can find yourself in handcuffs, and the drama that follows it.] Again there are lots of people who say " but, but the police are there to protect you" or "if your not doing anything wrong you have nothing to be afraid of" when the cold hard truth is, it's selective enforcement of laws and selective outrage on "blue crime" that creates these false narratives. Case in point, the policing in Witchta, KA is different from Las Vegas, NV or Los Angeles, CA or NYC. But those differences do not green light racist or elitist policy that protect chosen few communities and while systematically injuring the majority of the other communities. [i.e. Greenwich Village vs. Harlem NYC, this is small atom of the picture of disfunction that is NYC, that I am trying to relate.] Respect for your fellow human should be transparent and universal, Dr. King's speech "I have a dream" is achievable, but we're not there yet. I often wonder if it's capitalism in the US that keeps Dr. Kings dream just that a dream...
ryaneager 3y ago
[flagged]
ddq 3y ago
[flagged]
james4k 3y ago
Time and time again this kind of civility check, often arbitrary, reinforces the existing social order and the everyday violence underneath it. But that's okay because if you don't pass the civility check, you are deemed undeserving of humanity.
eschaton 3y ago
What are you, a bootlicker?

I was with you until you used the inflammatory ACAB term. It’s incredibly offensive and doesn’t help your argument.

by influx 3y ago

I was with you until you used the inflammatory ACAB term. It’s incredibly offensive and doesn’t help your argument.

kacesensitive 3y ago

[flagged]

gruez 3y ago
So? How is that relevant to this discussion? You're the first person bringing the phrase up.

mschuster91 3y ago

Of course it is offensive. But so are all the "cops" who follow the Korpsgeist and keep their mouths shut when they see their colleagues openly break the law. Or those that spend 80% of their work time on "traffic stops" aka harassing Black people and other minorities. Remember George Floyd or all the others who died under suspicious circumstances without a bystander live-streaming their deaths.

zgluck 3y ago
Observation: Your profile says: You call it "alt-left", I proudly call it "Antifa".
- robotresearcher 3y ago
  Attack the argument, not the person making it.
  - zgluck 3y ago
    Where was the attack? Does mschuster91 consider being associated with antifa (that's how I interpret it) an "attack"?
- kergonath 3y ago
  How is it relevant?
  - zgluck 3y ago
    How is it not relevant?
    - mschuster91 3y ago
      It should not matter if one is on the right, center or left end of the spectrum to recognize that police should be an instutition that is accepted by all members of society - and that in most Western countries, public distrust in police is only growing over the last years due to (severe) misconduct, incompetence, selective enforcement and a lot of other problems. Of course, as someone associating with the far left side of politics and being politically active in general, I may be a bit more opinionated than many other people - but that fact alone is sad, given how important governmental institutions are for our daily lives.
      - zgluck 3y ago
        Beyond that - did you disagree with me showing that part of your profile? Did you feel like your privacy was being violated, or something like that?
    - kergonath 3y ago
      Picking details from their profile is an attempt to discredit them without addressing their message. It’s a distraction at best, deceitful at worst. They could be the stupidest idiot and still be right occasionally, and vice versa. So if you have issues with the point they are making, engage with the point instead of looking for dog whistles. Also, seriously, you have to be in the US for antifa to be considered a bad thing somehow. I thought we decided back in the 1940s that we were all anti-fascists.
Levitz 3y ago
>Of course it is offensive. But so are all the "cops" who follow the Korpsgeist and keep their mouths shut when they see their colleagues openly break the law. I'm going to go out on a whim and say you wouldn't be comfortable saying that all black people are bastards because they don't stand out against their peers.
influx 3y ago
What about this cop who rescues a 9 year old kidnapped child? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jzHi6Xs0Qc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jzHi6Xs0Qc
- eschaton 3y ago
  If they looked the other way while fellow cops violated peoples’ rights then they’re still a piece of shit, even if they also did their job and saved a kidnapped kid.

asimovfan 3y ago

[flagged]

megabless123 3y ago

Counterpoint: it's not offensive at all and helps lots of people to understand the inherent problems with policing.

mycologos 3y ago
It is offensive in the sense that most people don't like being called bastards, and it doesn't "[help] lots of people to understand the inherent problems with policing" because it is just a heightened way of saying "I think cops are bad". There's no information in it, just opinion. The idea that making a strong emotive statement and assuming your interlocutor is going to fill in all the reasoned arguments behind it is somehow brave or worthwhile is, I think, a problem with a lot of modern discussion.
- yellowapple 3y ago
  > It is offensive in the sense that most people don't like being called bastards Their employment in a bastardizing profession is entirely voluntary, and they can forego that employment in favor of earning an honest living at their leisure.
  - smokelegend 3y ago
    Well said! That's a critical point in the discussion, this is a job is a voluntary occupation. Nobody forced them to take the position. At anytime they can quit and find other employment, but all it seems to often that most are complacent and complicit in the terms of their employment. Boss says do this, this and that, and they do it lockstep. There should be more discussion on the policy and procedures they use. i.e. "broken windows policy", "stop and frisk policy", "Tuesdays & Thursday" [ I have experienced this one personally, in New York city there is a known tactic that nyc police undercover (plain clothes officers) would stalk the streets harassing citizens in the name of crime prevention[Washington Heights, which is north of Harlem], and if you're darker skin, or just in a irradiated mood for being harassed weekly by these "crime stoppers", you can find yourself in handcuffs, and the drama that follows it.] Again there are lots of people who say " but, but the police are there to protect you" or "if your not doing anything wrong you have nothing to be afraid of" when the cold hard truth is, it's selective enforcement of laws and selective outrage on "blue crime" that creates these false narratives. Case in point, the policing in Witchta, KA is different from Las Vegas, NV or Los Angeles, CA or NYC. But those differences do not green light racist or elitist policy that protect chosen few communities and while systematically injuring the majority of the other communities. [i.e. Greenwich Village vs. Harlem NYC, this is small atom of the picture of disfunction that is NYC, that I am trying to relate.] Respect for your fellow human should be transparent and universal, Dr. King's speech "I have a dream" is achievable, but we're not there yet. I often wonder if it's capitalism in the US that keeps Dr. Kings dream just that a dream...

ryaneager 3y ago

[flagged]

ddq 3y ago

[flagged]

james4k 3y ago

Time and time again this kind of civility check, often arbitrary, reinforces the existing social order and the everyday violence underneath it. But that's okay because if you don't pass the civility check, you are deemed undeserving of humanity.

eschaton 3y ago

What are you, a bootlicker?