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> Failing to yield to pedestrians where? This is what you said, and what I am responding to. Also, I would suggest that deaths from drivers are probably only

> Failing to yield to pedestrians where? This is what you said, and what I am responding to. Also, I would suggest that deaths from drivers are probably only higher because the probability of a collision being fatal is a lot higher when one party in the collision is 2 tons, and that the fatality rate is not a good proxy for the rate of total accidents (even the rate of total accidents where someone ends up in a hospital). I have not seen a credible measurement for that, but I would expect from what I have seen in my 6 years living in Manhattan that the accident rate with bikes is a lot higher than it is with cars, and that so is the rate of injuries. As a pedestrian, my chance of getting killed in a traffic accident are so astronomically low that I actually care a lot more about my probability of being injured than my probability of being killed.

ClumsyPilot 3y ago
> my chance of getting killed in a traffic accident are so astronomically low Are they really? You have a higher chance of being killed by a car while you are inside a building, than you are of being killed by a cyclist.
- pclmulqdq 3y ago
  Yes, they are. A city of 8 million had ~200 fatalities last year. Also, I'm not concerned about getting killed by a cyclist. I'm concerned about getting hit by one. Those are not the same thing.
  - esoterica 3y ago
    NYC averages less than 1 pedestrian killed by bikes every year. https://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/downloads/pdf/nycdot-pedestrian-fatalities-by-bike-motor-vehicle.pdf https://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/downloads/pdf/nycdot-pedestrian... There are ~300 pedestrian injuries caused by bikes every year vs 10,000 caused by cars. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/27/nyregion/elderly-pedestrians-bicycles-accidents.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/27/nyregion/elderly-pedestri... Your feelings about bikes are in direct contradiction with the data.
    - pclmulqdq 3y ago
      One more time: The number of people killed by each does not matter to me. What matters is the chance of getting hit at all. I still have not seen a credible study about causes of accidents involving an injured pedestrian.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
      - esoterica 3y ago
        Did you read the comment you replied to? I will say it again: there were 300 pedestrian injuries caused by bikes and 10,000 caused by cars in NYC in 2017. Click on the link.
        pclmulqdq 3y ago
        I did read it. To spell it out for you: Looking at the official records (which the NYT did - I did read the thing you cited) will severely underreport bike-pedestrian collisions and the resulting injuries because almost all of them are not handled through official accident reporting channels, so they don't get counted. Like I said again, I have yet to see a credible study counting non-fatal injuries from bikes in the city. Someone could do this, for example, by randomly sampling ER patients to see how many were involved in bicycle-pedestrian crashes, but nobody has. Also, that NYT article is almost a pro-bike op-ed in its tone, and I would suggest finding sources that at least sound a little more neutral on your issues of choice.

ClumsyPilot 3y ago

> my chance of getting killed in a traffic accident are so astronomically low Are they really? You have a higher chance of being killed by a car while you are inside a building, than you are of being killed by a cyclist.

pclmulqdq 3y ago
Yes, they are. A city of 8 million had ~200 fatalities last year. Also, I'm not concerned about getting killed by a cyclist. I'm concerned about getting hit by one. Those are not the same thing.
- esoterica 3y ago
  NYC averages less than 1 pedestrian killed by bikes every year. https://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/downloads/pdf/nycdot-pedestrian-fatalities-by-bike-motor-vehicle.pdf https://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/downloads/pdf/nycdot-pedestrian... There are ~300 pedestrian injuries caused by bikes every year vs 10,000 caused by cars. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/27/nyregion/elderly-pedestrians-bicycles-accidents.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/27/nyregion/elderly-pedestri... Your feelings about bikes are in direct contradiction with the data.
  - pclmulqdq 3y ago
    One more time: The number of people killed by each does not matter to me. What matters is the chance of getting hit at all. I still have not seen a credible study about causes of accidents involving an injured pedestrian.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - esoterica 3y ago
      Did you read the comment you replied to? I will say it again: there were 300 pedestrian injuries caused by bikes and 10,000 caused by cars in NYC in 2017. Click on the link.
      - pclmulqdq 3y ago
        I did read it. To spell it out for you: Looking at the official records (which the NYT did - I did read the thing you cited) will severely underreport bike-pedestrian collisions and the resulting injuries because almost all of them are not handled through official accident reporting channels, so they don't get counted. Like I said again, I have yet to see a credible study counting non-fatal injuries from bikes in the city. Someone could do this, for example, by randomly sampling ER patients to see how many were involved in bicycle-pedestrian crashes, but nobody has. Also, that NYT article is almost a pro-bike op-ed in its tone, and I would suggest finding sources that at least sound a little more neutral on your issues of choice.