6 ms·

We should start asking for residuals on software we write!

toomuchtodo 3y ago
Equity? Are y'all not asking for that? Travolta Confused Meme here Royalties are equity distributions, "dividends" if you will.
- intelVISA 3y ago
  No less than 49% I hope!
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- DANmode 3y ago
  What's the largest equity role you've held?
  - toomuchtodo 3y ago
    In a YC unicorn, ~%0.15 give or take (out of 0.2% granted, employee 10-15). In other orgs, various amounts depending on how my contribution is valued (grinding on a keyboard, advising, etc). In my most recent role, they gave me a ton of RSUs for essentially "head of security" at a fintech reporting to a CISO. My point is that if you're not asking about ownership, you should be. My personal financial situation is not representative of the broad working class. Lots of luck involved too, but asking is mostly free. Resources I've previously posted: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28405708 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28405708 Parent thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28401655 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28401655 u/JoshDoody's submissions are also great on the comp negotiation topic (although he has not been around lately): https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=JoshDoody https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=JoshDoody https://www.amazon.com/NEW-Never-Split-Difference-Lead-Title/dp/B09VCPNDH3/ https://www.amazon.com/NEW-Never-Split-Difference-Lead-Title... (Never Split the Difference: Negotiating as if Your Life Depended on It) (I learned the hard way, I hope to help others not have to by sharing my thoughts and experiences)
    - DANmode 3y ago
      I'm building something, and approaching investment stage. Really like the "cut of your jib" - are you currently interested in hearing about opportunities?
      - toomuchtodo 3y ago
        Definitely interested if I can materially contribute. Email in profile, looking forward to hearing what you're building and how I can help.
  - scarface_74 3y ago
    Whatever the amount of shares I have in my publicly traded employer/the total amount of outstanding shares.
- jrockway 3y ago
  Equity is something else, right? Actors aren't given shares of the studio in return for making a show; they're given a % of the sales. (A looooow % based on this article.) Equity in software is weird. At small companies, it's pretty much like winning the lottery. (I got $0 per share I owned the last time around. That's about what I valued it at, so no big deal.) At big companies, your work probably doesn't play any role in affecting the stock price. For that reason, I think residuals are a unique thing not covered by equity. Having said that, I'm mostly kidding. The "we pay you for the hours you show up" is a relatively fair model and has worked well in our industry.
  - toomuchtodo 3y ago
    My point of this subthread is that royalties, dividends, equity, whatever are all just mechanisms to reward based on upside in a collective endeavor, and can be negotiated as a compensation component. If you're functioning within capitalism, the idea that you keep getting paid for something you're not actively working on shouldn't be foreign. Look no further than your index funds, whether growth or income producing securities. What makes royalties unpalatable with these concepts in mind? Not much different than VTI, SCHD, etc (public securities, growth and income producing respectively, if you're unfamiliar). You have acquired an asset in some manner (either paying for it with fiat or with your time), and you are holding it for future economic benefit. For example: I receive dividends from a friend's vending machine business I invested in to help them rapidly scale up (including me lugging vending machines to locations, setting up infra to monitor remotely and accept payments, etc). That is no different than equity in a SaaS product or someone's contributions to a major motion picture. I agree there is a lot of nuance (ie all of your points), but the conversation should be "how is ownership valued and distributed? is it reasonable and equitable?"
  - scarface_74 3y ago
    > Equity in software is weird. At small companies, it's pretty much like winning the lottery What’s weird about it? Stock in public companies are also “equity”. It’s not winning the lottery in that case. I know my shares of AMZN are going to be worth something as they vest. That’s the reason I refuse to work for a startup at this point in my life. It was bad enough when my RSUs dropped from $140 to $90 by the time my first shares vested (back to $130 now and I got a refresher that mostly made up for it). But that’s a kid better than waiting for an exit.

Equity? Are y'all not asking for that? Travolta Confused Meme here Royalties are equity distributions, "dividends" if you will.

intelVISA 3y ago
No less than 49% I hope!
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
DANmode 3y ago
What's the largest equity role you've held?
- toomuchtodo 3y ago
  In a YC unicorn, ~%0.15 give or take (out of 0.2% granted, employee 10-15). In other orgs, various amounts depending on how my contribution is valued (grinding on a keyboard, advising, etc). In my most recent role, they gave me a ton of RSUs for essentially "head of security" at a fintech reporting to a CISO. My point is that if you're not asking about ownership, you should be. My personal financial situation is not representative of the broad working class. Lots of luck involved too, but asking is mostly free. Resources I've previously posted: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28405708 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28405708 Parent thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28401655 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28401655 u/JoshDoody's submissions are also great on the comp negotiation topic (although he has not been around lately): https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=JoshDoody https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=JoshDoody https://www.amazon.com/NEW-Never-Split-Difference-Lead-Title/dp/B09VCPNDH3/ https://www.amazon.com/NEW-Never-Split-Difference-Lead-Title... (Never Split the Difference: Negotiating as if Your Life Depended on It) (I learned the hard way, I hope to help others not have to by sharing my thoughts and experiences)
  - DANmode 3y ago
    I'm building something, and approaching investment stage. Really like the "cut of your jib" - are you currently interested in hearing about opportunities?
    - toomuchtodo 3y ago
      Definitely interested if I can materially contribute. Email in profile, looking forward to hearing what you're building and how I can help.
- scarface_74 3y ago
  Whatever the amount of shares I have in my publicly traded employer/the total amount of outstanding shares.
jrockway 3y ago
Equity is something else, right? Actors aren't given shares of the studio in return for making a show; they're given a % of the sales. (A looooow % based on this article.) Equity in software is weird. At small companies, it's pretty much like winning the lottery. (I got $0 per share I owned the last time around. That's about what I valued it at, so no big deal.) At big companies, your work probably doesn't play any role in affecting the stock price. For that reason, I think residuals are a unique thing not covered by equity. Having said that, I'm mostly kidding. The "we pay you for the hours you show up" is a relatively fair model and has worked well in our industry.
- toomuchtodo 3y ago
  My point of this subthread is that royalties, dividends, equity, whatever are all just mechanisms to reward based on upside in a collective endeavor, and can be negotiated as a compensation component. If you're functioning within capitalism, the idea that you keep getting paid for something you're not actively working on shouldn't be foreign. Look no further than your index funds, whether growth or income producing securities. What makes royalties unpalatable with these concepts in mind? Not much different than VTI, SCHD, etc (public securities, growth and income producing respectively, if you're unfamiliar). You have acquired an asset in some manner (either paying for it with fiat or with your time), and you are holding it for future economic benefit. For example: I receive dividends from a friend's vending machine business I invested in to help them rapidly scale up (including me lugging vending machines to locations, setting up infra to monitor remotely and accept payments, etc). That is no different than equity in a SaaS product or someone's contributions to a major motion picture. I agree there is a lot of nuance (ie all of your points), but the conversation should be "how is ownership valued and distributed? is it reasonable and equitable?"
- scarface_74 3y ago
  > Equity in software is weird. At small companies, it's pretty much like winning the lottery What’s weird about it? Stock in public companies are also “equity”. It’s not winning the lottery in that case. I know my shares of AMZN are going to be worth something as they vest. That’s the reason I refuse to work for a startup at this point in my life. It was bad enough when my RSUs dropped from $140 to $90 by the time my first shares vested (back to $130 now and I got a refresher that mostly made up for it). But that’s a kid better than waiting for an exit.