> the streets that we build specifically for driving cars If you want to participate in these kinds of discussions and have them turn into anything but shoutin

> the streets that we build specifically for driving cars If you want to participate in these kinds of discussions and have them turn into anything but shouting matches, you might want to consider that "specifically for driving cars" is very much the problem for many people. They don't share your axiom that it should be that way, or even that it's OK. Think for a moment. In an ideal world, how much space would you devote to cars and parking vs. bikes and pedestrians? Now go see how much is devoted to that. A lot of people don't even realize how big those numbers are, and you might find that the percentage is greater than even you just determined it should be. Cyclists drive in the road because they feel they're already being denied their fair share of that space, and what space is nominally given them is unfit for purpose (especially with regard to safety and freedom from obstruction). You might agree with them and you might not, but simply stating your (probably unexamined) axiom as fact isn't going to get anyone anywhere. BTW it feels weird to me, taking the side of the cyclists. More often I'm at odds with them; I even recognize some of the names here from past encounters. As a "high speed pedestrian" (i.e. runner) I am absolutely sick and tired of cyclists trying to push me aside where I have every right to be and in fact 100% have right of way when there's contention. Especially when I know 99% of them are not commuters whose riding does anything whatsoever for the environment. The parking lot between the local bike path and where my daughter used to do karate is always full of cyclists unloading their bikes from their cars for what is clearly a recreational ride. They drove there (and back) to indulge in their hobby. I won't accept any self-righteous bullshit from them, but I do recognize that the actual bike commuters have every right to use paths and roads, and they're helping the (natural and human) environment by doing so.