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The same can be said for virtually any societal change. Want people to proactively fight climate change? It turns out guilting people doesn't work, but give the

The same can be said for virtually any societal change. Want people to proactively fight climate change? It turns out guilting people doesn't work, but give them a dignified existence and they will immediately care about the world they live in.

gruez 3y ago
>but give them a dignified existence and they will immediately care about the world they live in. What does "a dignified existence" mean as it relates to climate change?
- zmgsabst 3y ago
  Stop telling them they need to eat bugs, not take vacations, and live a worse life. People who eat exotic steaks, fly private jets, and own outrageous fortunes forcing people into that derivation will always come across as abusive — no matter what social cause you dress it up in. Create a world where people are prosperous and have lots of children… and they’ll care about the future.
  - tensor 3y ago
    People who have lots of children, and people who are prosperous, currently do not care about the future. In fact, it seems the wealthier people are the LESS they care about the future for some reason. If you ask me, people need to be more educated, and especially when it comes to science and misinformation. Wealth won't make people better people, which isn't to say that inequality isn't a problem, it is, but fixing it won't solve the climate problem. That comes purely from ignorance and selfishness.
- bluGill 3y ago
  Think only of the now. 'This hot summer is an anomaly, things will go back to normal.' Once get that mindset you can see how most proposed changes are not dignified. They might make the future much better, but the now is worse.
davidktr 3y ago
Is that so? The most dignified, people with the most money, are also causing the most desctruction. I find it odd to say people are fighting climate change if they actively contribute to climate's destruction. Doing it for a short time with a clearly stated end date would be one thing. However, almost nobody emits less than the crucial threshold of 2 t CO2/year. At some point you have to admit that if you aren't doing it, you aren't doing it.
- eastbound 3y ago
  Yes. I pollute because I’m a leftover. Give me a wife, children and love and I’ll care for others. Such things as people being scorned do exist.
- evandale 3y ago
  Right? A friendly reminder that Gates shorts Tesla and that Washington state has the most regressive tax system in the USA. I'm nearly at my wits end when it comes to rich people preaching nonsense they don't believe in to everyone. https://time.com/6208632/celebrities-climate-impact-private-jets-yachts/ https://time.com/6208632/celebrities-climate-impact-private-... Carbon credits are the equivalent to murdering an innocent person and thinking that raping 2 women and supporting the offspring morally absolves you of the original murder and 2 rapes because you assume those 2 children will go on to save the world.
  - swexbe 3y ago
    Tesla won’t save the world. This is probably not problem we can solve with more growth, sadly. Also, TSLA has by far the highest P/E of any major car manufacturer…
adra 3y ago
Nah, with people who can produce 10's-100's more pollution per person than others, making an individual choice to do better makes little difference. Certainly learning to make small choices in the right direction (stop denying local net zero energy projects, switch away from heavy fossil fuel consumption vehicles, etc) are important individual contributions, but ultimately nothings going to get done en mass until nations start bullying each other into compliance. South Africa is a generally developed nation and its entire energy grid are almost entirely coal. The US is pretty hard on global carbon energy initiatives because they're now a net positive oil and gas producer? Lower priced net zero tech will certainly steer the narrative as time goes on, but will it be fast enough to kill greedy self-interest in the status quo..

gruez 3y ago

>but give them a dignified existence and they will immediately care about the world they live in. What does "a dignified existence" mean as it relates to climate change?

zmgsabst 3y ago
Stop telling them they need to eat bugs, not take vacations, and live a worse life. People who eat exotic steaks, fly private jets, and own outrageous fortunes forcing people into that derivation will always come across as abusive — no matter what social cause you dress it up in. Create a world where people are prosperous and have lots of children… and they’ll care about the future.
- tensor 3y ago
  People who have lots of children, and people who are prosperous, currently do not care about the future. In fact, it seems the wealthier people are the LESS they care about the future for some reason. If you ask me, people need to be more educated, and especially when it comes to science and misinformation. Wealth won't make people better people, which isn't to say that inequality isn't a problem, it is, but fixing it won't solve the climate problem. That comes purely from ignorance and selfishness.
bluGill 3y ago
Think only of the now. 'This hot summer is an anomaly, things will go back to normal.' Once get that mindset you can see how most proposed changes are not dignified. They might make the future much better, but the now is worse.

davidktr 3y ago

Is that so? The most dignified, people with the most money, are also causing the most desctruction. I find it odd to say people are fighting climate change if they actively contribute to climate's destruction. Doing it for a short time with a clearly stated end date would be one thing. However, almost nobody emits less than the crucial threshold of 2 t CO2/year. At some point you have to admit that if you aren't doing it, you aren't doing it.

eastbound 3y ago
Yes. I pollute because I’m a leftover. Give me a wife, children and love and I’ll care for others. Such things as people being scorned do exist.
evandale 3y ago
Right? A friendly reminder that Gates shorts Tesla and that Washington state has the most regressive tax system in the USA. I'm nearly at my wits end when it comes to rich people preaching nonsense they don't believe in to everyone. https://time.com/6208632/celebrities-climate-impact-private-jets-yachts/ https://time.com/6208632/celebrities-climate-impact-private-... Carbon credits are the equivalent to murdering an innocent person and thinking that raping 2 women and supporting the offspring morally absolves you of the original murder and 2 rapes because you assume those 2 children will go on to save the world.
- swexbe 3y ago
  Tesla won’t save the world. This is probably not problem we can solve with more growth, sadly. Also, TSLA has by far the highest P/E of any major car manufacturer…

adra 3y ago

Nah, with people who can produce 10's-100's more pollution per person than others, making an individual choice to do better makes little difference. Certainly learning to make small choices in the right direction (stop denying local net zero energy projects, switch away from heavy fossil fuel consumption vehicles, etc) are important individual contributions, but ultimately nothings going to get done en mass until nations start bullying each other into compliance. South Africa is a generally developed nation and its entire energy grid are almost entirely coal. The US is pretty hard on global carbon energy initiatives because they're now a net positive oil and gas producer? Lower priced net zero tech will certainly steer the narrative as time goes on, but will it be fast enough to kill greedy self-interest in the status quo..