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You see that even on sites like this one (or reddit), where the etiquette page beseeches everyone to vote for comments that are useful, insightful, or well-argu

You see that even on sites like this one (or reddit), where the etiquette page beseeches everyone to vote for comments that are useful, insightful, or well-argued, rather than just what they agree with (especially already agree with). But it never really seems to play out that way; it's always pretty easy to farm karma by restating a popular opinion, cracking a joke, or dunking on the target de jour.

rahimnathwani 3y ago
it's always pretty easy to farm karma by restating a popular opinion, cracking a joke, or dunking on the target de jour Interestingly, my most upvoted recent comment was one stating a position that was opposed to ~all of the existing comments on a thread.
- AlbertCory 3y ago
  that could mean they were taking advantage of upvote anonymity, and agreeing without having to put their name to it.
  - rahimnathwani 3y ago
    Perhaps! But in this case it wasn't an opinion that could cause embarrassment or cancellation.
- burnished 3y ago
  Perhaps you were simply quite compelling? I upvote people I disagree with when they are courteous or when they change my mind. I don't imagine that practice is uncommon (maybe wishful thinking on my part)
threatofrain 3y ago
If something is an interesting debate then most people don't have the expertise to engage meaningfully with the facts and arguments being put forward. Experts can bullshit you all day and no amount of critical thinking is going to pull you out of a deep well of ignorance.
- vacuity 3y ago
  Fair, but I think critical thinking, even given the lack of domain-specific knowledge, would be quite valuable to some discussions on HN and beyond.
- johnnyanmac 3y ago
  >Experts can bullshit you all day and no amount of critical thinking is going to pull you out of a deep well of ignorance. that would be a lovely problem to have in modern social media. Meanwhile, I wonder if it would even hit the top 100 these days.
Pannoniae 3y ago
This website isn't even that bad compared to literally almost anywhere on the internet. From what I've observed with my comments, my "popular opinion" and "unpopular opinion" comments aren't that far apart in terms of comment karma. One-liner trivialisms and cheap baiting usually gets flagged here, not upvoted regardless of the topic, which is a very positive thing. I am very grateful to the site's admins and users for this lovely place, it's truly a unique thing.
- casefields 3y ago
  It mostly isn’t, but it does make occasional appearances. Go back and read threads about the Google Memo or Gamergate.
  - somedude895 3y ago
    Or any thread about Tesla Autopilot or cryptocurrency. But apart from those it is true that low effort comments and jokes do get downvoted and discussion is much more interesting than anywhere else on the internet imo
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- johnnyanmac 3y ago
  > From what I've observed with my comments, my "popular opinion" and "unpopular opinion" comments aren't that far apart in terms of comment karma. I think that's because HN is smart and doesn't just allow a fresh account go on a downvoting spree. It seems so obvious in retrospect but so underutilized. There's a lot of debate over whether we should have dislikes/downvotes on modern social media, but it seems strange that the Slashdot mentality of "you need to earn the downvote" seems to have only spread to here and to the "answerHub" styles of forum (wikis, StackOverflow). I remember one interesting feature of Voat (back when that was making waves) on how it limited votes per day and was criticized for it, but I think simply applying that limit to downvotes would have fixed many issues there. It seems ideally you want to encourage as much positive feedback as possible, but require a little friction for negative feedback.
jayd16 3y ago
Maybe HN is in an endless September now but it used to be that a joke or repeated comment would get downvoted.
pessimizer 3y ago
Disagree. The best threads are the highly contentious ones where I'm upvoting everybody.
- iamthepieman 3y ago
  Absolutely! If someone responds to me with any sort of meaningful reply, I always upvote. And my general heuristic for upvoting is 1. I learned something 2. I had an emotional reaction which means something intrinsic was challenged or affirmed 3. the person asked a question or is curious.

rahimnathwani 3y ago

it's always pretty easy to farm karma by restating a popular opinion, cracking a joke, or dunking on the target de jour Interestingly, my most upvoted recent comment was one stating a position that was opposed to ~all of the existing comments on a thread.

AlbertCory 3y ago
that could mean they were taking advantage of upvote anonymity, and agreeing without having to put their name to it.
- rahimnathwani 3y ago
  Perhaps! But in this case it wasn't an opinion that could cause embarrassment or cancellation.
burnished 3y ago
Perhaps you were simply quite compelling? I upvote people I disagree with when they are courteous or when they change my mind. I don't imagine that practice is uncommon (maybe wishful thinking on my part)

threatofrain 3y ago

If something is an interesting debate then most people don't have the expertise to engage meaningfully with the facts and arguments being put forward. Experts can bullshit you all day and no amount of critical thinking is going to pull you out of a deep well of ignorance.

vacuity 3y ago
Fair, but I think critical thinking, even given the lack of domain-specific knowledge, would be quite valuable to some discussions on HN and beyond.
johnnyanmac 3y ago
>Experts can bullshit you all day and no amount of critical thinking is going to pull you out of a deep well of ignorance. that would be a lovely problem to have in modern social media. Meanwhile, I wonder if it would even hit the top 100 these days.

Pannoniae 3y ago

This website isn't even that bad compared to literally almost anywhere on the internet. From what I've observed with my comments, my "popular opinion" and "unpopular opinion" comments aren't that far apart in terms of comment karma. One-liner trivialisms and cheap baiting usually gets flagged here, not upvoted regardless of the topic, which is a very positive thing. I am very grateful to the site's admins and users for this lovely place, it's truly a unique thing.

casefields 3y ago
It mostly isn’t, but it does make occasional appearances. Go back and read threads about the Google Memo or Gamergate.
- somedude895 3y ago
  Or any thread about Tesla Autopilot or cryptocurrency. But apart from those it is true that low effort comments and jokes do get downvoted and discussion is much more interesting than anywhere else on the internet imo
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
johnnyanmac 3y ago
> From what I've observed with my comments, my "popular opinion" and "unpopular opinion" comments aren't that far apart in terms of comment karma. I think that's because HN is smart and doesn't just allow a fresh account go on a downvoting spree. It seems so obvious in retrospect but so underutilized. There's a lot of debate over whether we should have dislikes/downvotes on modern social media, but it seems strange that the Slashdot mentality of "you need to earn the downvote" seems to have only spread to here and to the "answerHub" styles of forum (wikis, StackOverflow). I remember one interesting feature of Voat (back when that was making waves) on how it limited votes per day and was criticized for it, but I think simply applying that limit to downvotes would have fixed many issues there. It seems ideally you want to encourage as much positive feedback as possible, but require a little friction for negative feedback.

jayd16 3y ago

Maybe HN is in an endless September now but it used to be that a joke or repeated comment would get downvoted.

pessimizer 3y ago

Disagree. The best threads are the highly contentious ones where I'm upvoting everybody.

iamthepieman 3y ago
Absolutely! If someone responds to me with any sort of meaningful reply, I always upvote. And my general heuristic for upvoting is 1. I learned something 2. I had an emotional reaction which means something intrinsic was challenged or affirmed 3. the person asked a question or is curious.