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This seems much better than the last article I read about trends in high school debate, which basically was talking over the other person and using the gish-gal
by RajT88 3y ago
This seems much better than the last article I read about trends in high school debate, which basically was talking over the other person and using the gish-gallop maneuver:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop
- morelisp 3y agoI can see why speed debate can seem like a gish gallop, but it's not. And the way policy is structured it's definitely not talking over anyone (except I suppose in some of the absolutely radical Ks that attempt to destroy the policy format, and even K-friendly judges hate those).
- RajT88 3y agoTrying to find the article now. I am pretty sure that they were not misunderstanding the dynamics of speed debate, and kids were actually using the gish gallop.
- tekla 3y agoA big point in debate is learning how to deal with gish-gallop. That shit only works if you don't know how to deal with it.
- AYBABTME 3y agoHow do you deal with it?
- zbentley 3y agoCareful note taking, keeping your head and identifying contingent and similar arguments such that you don't have to spend tons of time on each counterpoint, prioritizing offensive ("your claim X actually supports my side, not yours, because Y", aka. turns) rebuttals over defensive ones, and not spending undue time on weaker claims that the judge is likely to doubt as well. There's a lot more you can do, but those are some pretty uncontentious strategies. Source: debated for 8 years in school.
- lupire 3y agoThe way to respond to Gish Gallop is to refuse to engage.
- zbentley 3y agoI was referring to competitive debate, where refusal to engage isn't a feasible option: judges rarely consider "spreading" (Gish Galloping, basically) inherently abusive, and convincing them of its abusiveness via a speed Kritik is widely considered to be a poor strategy, since the offending team is likely able to overwhelm the points of the Kritik with spreading as well.
- morelisp 3y agoA gish gallop is an asymmetric attack. They can produce nonsense faster than, say, a physicist can produce physics or a mathematician proofs; and usually have nothing else to do with their time. But in a policy debate framework both sides have equal time, neither is doing original research and both are expected to cite qualified evidence, the judge understands the structural flow of the arguments, and you can say "this is nonsense" faster than they can "explain" the point. Or as Wikipedia even says: Generally, it is more difficult to use the Gish gallop in a structured debate than a free-form one.
- dadadad100 3y agoThanks for this. I didn’t know there was a name for this technique. If you listened to RFK jr on Lex recently you heard many many examples. And also Trump. I’ve only heard it described as “flood the zone with shit”, which is a reference to a football (American) tactic
- lowkey 3y ago> If you listened to RFK jr on Lex recently you heard many many examples. Could you provide one or two such examples so we can evaluate for ourselves?
- ang_cire 3y agoThis is not a thing in Policy Debate (certainly not anymore). There are literally tons of different theory arguments against this stuff, like arguing T-abuse, condo, or in the old days even RVIs. Also, in Policy debate, other than cross-ex the debaters aren't ever talking at the same time.