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These alt debates were well around 20 years ago. It was incredibly rare that they succeeded because: a) most judges didn't really like it when the debate becom

by tekla 3y ago

These alt debates were well around 20 years ago. It was incredibly rare that they succeeded because: a) most judges didn't really like it when the debate becomes some weird meta thing. b) most teams that ran this were NOT good at debate. What seems new is Judges completely throwing out the substance of the debate and relying on their own political views for the round.

projektfu 3y ago
Now that you say that, it reminds me that there was a term for it at least 25 years ago. Something like "dark policy"...
kurthr 3y ago
If, by political views, you mean boredom with a well worn artificial meta argument that makes a farce of whatever rules do exist in debate. It was funny/interesting once.
morelisp 3y ago
> b) most teams that ran this were NOT good at debate. Yep. Everyone on my team who ran Ks, especially neg, were the people too lazy to do actual research against multiple plans.
- AnimalMuppet 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - morelisp 3y ago
    The people running Ks usually had trollish neocon or objectivist personal politics. When you use phrases like “the economic debate” it sounds like you know nothing about policy debate structure, and just want to dump on critical theory for your own personal politics here.
    - AnimalMuppet 3y ago
      I was asking about critical theory outside the policy debate structure. Saying "the economic debate" may have been misleading in that context. What I mean was: Marxism is primarily an economic theory. But if I were a Marxist at a university in the 1990s, I doubt I would have won very many arguments about how flawed capitalism was, and how Marxism was a better way to structure an economy - not after the Soviet Union collapsed, and China embraced capitalism. So if I were such a Marxist, I might look for non-economic grounds on which to argue for Marxism.
nrfulton 3y ago
No, all of that is still true at most tournaments. The author's piece is a description of the national circuit, and perhaps of a very few regional circuits that heavily overlap with the national circuit. All of her statistics are for an invite-only championship tournament (TOC) for that national circuit. Note: it's not the national championship, which does exist. It's a championship for competitors in a national circuit. Most kids attend tournaments close to home. Not only do they not attend the TOC -- they don't even attend a national circuit tournament that would allow them to qualify for the TOC!
- eiiot 3y ago
  That's not entirely true. A lot of Parli is concentrated on the coasts, and most of the West Coast encourages tech debate, so most West Coast debaters end up attending "tech" tournaments. Also, most "close to home" tournaments still give NPDL points. Also, TOC is the national championship. (NPDL Nationals Exist, but they are a relatively recent addition, and aren't highly respected in the community)

by tekla 3y ago

projektfu 3y ago

Now that you say that, it reminds me that there was a term for it at least 25 years ago. Something like "dark policy"...

kurthr 3y ago

If, by political views, you mean boredom with a well worn artificial meta argument that makes a farce of whatever rules do exist in debate. It was funny/interesting once.

morelisp 3y ago

> b) most teams that ran this were NOT good at debate. Yep. Everyone on my team who ran Ks, especially neg, were the people too lazy to do actual research against multiple plans.

AnimalMuppet 3y ago
[flagged]
- morelisp 3y ago
  The people running Ks usually had trollish neocon or objectivist personal politics. When you use phrases like “the economic debate” it sounds like you know nothing about policy debate structure, and just want to dump on critical theory for your own personal politics here.
  - AnimalMuppet 3y ago
    I was asking about critical theory outside the policy debate structure. Saying "the economic debate" may have been misleading in that context. What I mean was: Marxism is primarily an economic theory. But if I were a Marxist at a university in the 1990s, I doubt I would have won very many arguments about how flawed capitalism was, and how Marxism was a better way to structure an economy - not after the Soviet Union collapsed, and China embraced capitalism. So if I were such a Marxist, I might look for non-economic grounds on which to argue for Marxism.

nrfulton 3y ago

No, all of that is still true at most tournaments. The author's piece is a description of the national circuit, and perhaps of a very few regional circuits that heavily overlap with the national circuit. All of her statistics are for an invite-only championship tournament (TOC) for that national circuit. Note: it's not the national championship, which does exist. It's a championship for competitors in a national circuit. Most kids attend tournaments close to home. Not only do they not attend the TOC -- they don't even attend a national circuit tournament that would allow them to qualify for the TOC!

eiiot 3y ago
That's not entirely true. A lot of Parli is concentrated on the coasts, and most of the West Coast encourages tech debate, so most West Coast debaters end up attending "tech" tournaments. Also, most "close to home" tournaments still give NPDL points. Also, TOC is the national championship. (NPDL Nationals Exist, but they are a relatively recent addition, and aren't highly respected in the community)