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>That's propaganda, and now you're getting somewhere. We already get 63% of our protein from plants. If we were to extend that to 100%, we could store our entir

>That's propaganda, and now you're getting somewhere. We already get 63% of our protein from plants. If we were to extend that to 100%, we could store our entire 1.5C carbon budget through afforesting and rewilding pastures, which would also help restore biodiversity. Protein is not created equally. It is not possible to maintain a healthy diet using sustainable low-energy sources of plant protein in place of meat. Meat is not an optional part of our diet. There have been plenty of studies detailing the dietary impact of vegan diets.

myshpa 3y ago
https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2021-11-11-sustainable-eating-cheaper-and-healthier-oxford-study https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2021-11-11-sustainable-eating-chea... Sustainable eating is cheaper and healthier - Oxford study https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35719615/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35719615/ Plant-based diets were protective against cancers of the digestive system, with no significant differences between different types of cancer, a meta-analysis based on 3,059,009 subjects https://www.dutchnews.nl/2023/04/meat-tax-would-boost-health-and-cut-heathcare-spending-research/ https://www.dutchnews.nl/2023/04/meat-tax-would-boost-health... Meat tax would boost health and cut healthcare spending: research https://www.foodingredientsfirst.com/news/over-17000-doctors-call-on-white-house-to-shape-nutrition-policy-on-plant-based-diets.html https://www.foodingredientsfirst.com/news/over-17000-doctors... Over 17,000 doctors call on White House to shape nutrition policy on plant-based diets "It is the position of the American Dietetic Association that appropriately planned vegetarian diets, including total vegetarian or vegan diets, are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. Well-planned vegetarian diets are appropriate for individuals during all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, and adolescence, and for athletes." - American Dietetic Association "A vegetarian or vegan diet can be suitable for everyone, regardless of their age." - NHS UK "[I]t is possible to follow a well-planned, plant-based, vegan friendly diet that supports healthy living in people of all ages, and during pregnancy and breastfeeding." - British Dietetic Association. "For adults, protein from two or more plant groups daily is like to be adequate. " - World Health Organisation > There have been plenty of studies detailing the dietary impact of vegan diets Meat & dairy industry is spending massive amounts of money of keeping the status quo as long as possible, same as with cigarettes or fossil fuels. A lot of those studies are paid for, be aware. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/may/03/beef-industry-public-relations-messaging-machine https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/may/03/beef-ind... Inside big beef’s climate messaging machine: confuse, defend and downplay https://newrepublic.com/article/171781/meat-culture-war-crickets https://newrepublic.com/article/171781/meat-culture-war-cric... Why Right-Wingers Are So Afraid of Men Eating Vegetables https://www.salon.com/2022/11/11/the-meat-industry-is-borrowing-tactics-from-big-oil-to-obfuscate-the-truth-about-climate-change/ https://www.salon.com/2022/11/11/the-meat-industry-is-borrow... The meat industry is borrowing tactics from Big Oil to obfuscate the truth about climate change https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/23778399/media-ignores-climate-change-beef-meat-dairy https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/23778399/media-ignores-cl... Why the media too often ignores the connection between climate change and meat https://www.salon.com/2023/05/13/how-big-oil-is-manipulating-the-way-you-think-about-climate-change/ https://www.salon.com/2023/05/13/how-big-oil-is-manipulating...
- bluescrn 3y ago
  And this is why people are being pushed away from the environmental movement as a whole. As well as the activists blocking roads and throwing paint around. Significant changes to energy/fuel usage and transport/travel were already hard for people to accept, with vast numbers of jobs/livelihoods so dependent on cars. But trying to take away meat at the same time (let alone all dairy) is just too much to ask, certainly not an election winner. (So we get to 'conspiracy theories' about the WEF and global policy being dictated undemocratically, with a war on farming that nobody voted for set to cut food production at a time when we're told that the biggest risk from climate change is crop failure and famine...)
  - myshpa 3y ago
    > Significant changes to energy/fuel usage and transport/travel Nothing significant have happened yet. > war on farming that nobody voted for set to cut food production No one wants to reduce food production. We just need to do more of what is sustainable and avoid doing the things that are not. > the biggest risk from climate change is crop failure and famine And with deforestation and soil depletion our farming practices are one of the biggest culprits of that. > conspiracy theories Yep, let our politicians solve the problem ... but don't change a thing!
- BasedAnon 3y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop
  - myshpa 3y ago
    Not a fan of scientific articles, opinions of health organizations and articles disproving your point? Fine ... i'll make it shorter. > It is not possible to maintain a healthy diet using sustainable low-energy sources of plant protein in place of meat. Not true. > Meat is not an optional part of our diet. Not true. > There have been plenty of studies detailing the dietary impact of vegan diets. There have been. Some paid by meat industry, some peer reviewed and supporting my point. Could you share some of those studies supporting your point?
tzs 3y ago
Even if we accept that meat is not optional we don't have to eat so much of it. Most of Europe consumes 1/2 to 2/3 of the meat per capita as the US. China too. Japan consumes about 40% per capita as the US and they consumer a mix of meats that has much less climate impact. India consumes around 1/30th of the US in meat per capita.
- BasedAnon 3y ago
  in western countries sure, there is a glut of food but there are non-western countries that are chronically malnutritioned and that absolutely do need that meat. it's a distribution problem not a farming problem
  - myshpa 3y ago
    False Cause fallacy

myshpa 3y ago

https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2021-11-11-sustainable-eating-cheaper-and-healthier-oxford-study https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2021-11-11-sustainable-eating-chea... Sustainable eating is cheaper and healthier - Oxford study https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35719615/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35719615/ Plant-based diets were protective against cancers of the digestive system, with no significant differences between different types of cancer, a meta-analysis based on 3,059,009 subjects https://www.dutchnews.nl/2023/04/meat-tax-would-boost-health-and-cut-heathcare-spending-research/ https://www.dutchnews.nl/2023/04/meat-tax-would-boost-health... Meat tax would boost health and cut healthcare spending: research https://www.foodingredientsfirst.com/news/over-17000-doctors-call-on-white-house-to-shape-nutrition-policy-on-plant-based-diets.html https://www.foodingredientsfirst.com/news/over-17000-doctors... Over 17,000 doctors call on White House to shape nutrition policy on plant-based diets "It is the position of the American Dietetic Association that appropriately planned vegetarian diets, including total vegetarian or vegan diets, are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. Well-planned vegetarian diets are appropriate for individuals during all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, and adolescence, and for athletes." - American Dietetic Association "A vegetarian or vegan diet can be suitable for everyone, regardless of their age." - NHS UK "[I]t is possible to follow a well-planned, plant-based, vegan friendly diet that supports healthy living in people of all ages, and during pregnancy and breastfeeding." - British Dietetic Association. "For adults, protein from two or more plant groups daily is like to be adequate. " - World Health Organisation > There have been plenty of studies detailing the dietary impact of vegan diets Meat & dairy industry is spending massive amounts of money of keeping the status quo as long as possible, same as with cigarettes or fossil fuels. A lot of those studies are paid for, be aware. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/may/03/beef-industry-public-relations-messaging-machine https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/may/03/beef-ind... Inside big beef’s climate messaging machine: confuse, defend and downplay https://newrepublic.com/article/171781/meat-culture-war-crickets https://newrepublic.com/article/171781/meat-culture-war-cric... Why Right-Wingers Are So Afraid of Men Eating Vegetables https://www.salon.com/2022/11/11/the-meat-industry-is-borrowing-tactics-from-big-oil-to-obfuscate-the-truth-about-climate-change/ https://www.salon.com/2022/11/11/the-meat-industry-is-borrow... The meat industry is borrowing tactics from Big Oil to obfuscate the truth about climate change https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/23778399/media-ignores-climate-change-beef-meat-dairy https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/23778399/media-ignores-cl... Why the media too often ignores the connection between climate change and meat https://www.salon.com/2023/05/13/how-big-oil-is-manipulating-the-way-you-think-about-climate-change/ https://www.salon.com/2023/05/13/how-big-oil-is-manipulating...

bluescrn 3y ago
And this is why people are being pushed away from the environmental movement as a whole. As well as the activists blocking roads and throwing paint around. Significant changes to energy/fuel usage and transport/travel were already hard for people to accept, with vast numbers of jobs/livelihoods so dependent on cars. But trying to take away meat at the same time (let alone all dairy) is just too much to ask, certainly not an election winner. (So we get to 'conspiracy theories' about the WEF and global policy being dictated undemocratically, with a war on farming that nobody voted for set to cut food production at a time when we're told that the biggest risk from climate change is crop failure and famine...)
- myshpa 3y ago
  > Significant changes to energy/fuel usage and transport/travel Nothing significant have happened yet. > war on farming that nobody voted for set to cut food production No one wants to reduce food production. We just need to do more of what is sustainable and avoid doing the things that are not. > the biggest risk from climate change is crop failure and famine And with deforestation and soil depletion our farming practices are one of the biggest culprits of that. > conspiracy theories Yep, let our politicians solve the problem ... but don't change a thing!
BasedAnon 3y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop
- myshpa 3y ago
  Not a fan of scientific articles, opinions of health organizations and articles disproving your point? Fine ... i'll make it shorter. > It is not possible to maintain a healthy diet using sustainable low-energy sources of plant protein in place of meat. Not true. > Meat is not an optional part of our diet. Not true. > There have been plenty of studies detailing the dietary impact of vegan diets. There have been. Some paid by meat industry, some peer reviewed and supporting my point. Could you share some of those studies supporting your point?

tzs 3y ago

Even if we accept that meat is not optional we don't have to eat so much of it. Most of Europe consumes 1/2 to 2/3 of the meat per capita as the US. China too. Japan consumes about 40% per capita as the US and they consumer a mix of meats that has much less climate impact. India consumes around 1/30th of the US in meat per capita.

BasedAnon 3y ago
in western countries sure, there is a glut of food but there are non-western countries that are chronically malnutritioned and that absolutely do need that meat. it's a distribution problem not a farming problem
- myshpa 3y ago
  False Cause fallacy