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IRC isn’t an app, it’s a protocol. If you don’t like IRC clients as they exist, write or fund one of your own.

by Zetice 3y ago

eropple 3y ago
I am well aware it isn't "an app". I was using IRC in about 1997 and stopped in about 2017 because other options that were better suited to my needs, and had the people I wanted to talk to, arose. The second part of your response isn't helping you move towards the end state you want. If anything, it's going the other way. Product empathy isn't optional--ask yourself: why would I write or fund an IRC client when I have things that work for me already? Like, this is the Linux-on-the-desktop advocacy all over again. "Your thing doesn't work for me because of X [usually literally X on Linux, but you get the idea], but Y does." "Well, expend time or money to fix X!" Why? You're the one who likes X. You're advocating for it. Why would I fix the thing you like when the thing I use already works? Take the sibling response to yours--I learned something new in seeing https://thelounge.chat https://thelounge.chat, and while I don't want to run software to deal with chat, that was a cool thing to see. I learned something! I'll remember it later! Contrast that to "do it yourself".
- Zetice 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - eropple 3y ago
    I did "solve the problem". I use Slack and Discord to talk to the cohorts who used to be on IRC. Your behavior in this thread is really strange. Discord's a fine tool. So is Slack. I have nothing to fix, and my posts in this thread have been explaining why for me they're fit for purpose when IRC isn't. Why would I "do something about" a situation that isn't a problem for me?
    - Zetice 3y ago
      Then why bring up IRC’s lack of a “pleasant” app? Just seems like a problem you can and should solve for yourself, but is otherwise wholly unrelated to the protocol. One doesn’t complain about http because the mobile browser options aren’t to one’s liking.
      - boredtofears 3y ago
        You don't have to take responsibility for fixing something just because you criticized it. Fixating on the term used is a tad disingenuous. I think most people reading hacker news understands that the IRC ecosystem is being referenced here - not the protocol itself. IRC has been around 30+ years and it still doesn't have any great clients. If you wanted to build a featureful chat client IRC wouldn't even be a good choice because there is so many things missing from the spec.
        Zetice 3y ago
        Sorry but this passive voice over a completely open system is intolerable. Fix it yourself. It annoys me.
        eropple 3y ago
        Let's put it as simply as possible, because there's the genuine possibility that you don't understand, rather than are just being an acrimonious troll. You wouldn't be Linux-on-the-desktopping as hard as you are if you didn't want people to use it. As such, if you, as an advocate of a thing, want other people to use it when the alternative is "continue using other things", then the least effective response is "fix it yourself". I don't need to fix it. I have alternatives that already do what I want. If you want to hector people to use the thing you want them to do, then you had best come correct.
        Zetice 3y ago
        If you have everything you need, why did you complain? And insults do you no good here. Would any of the hateful words you wrote above mean anything at all to you if I wrote them?
Dalewyn 3y ago
Why is this getting downvoted? The spirit of what's argued is right in line with the spirit of free protocols, open source software, and venture capital funding for new challenges.
- eropple 3y ago
  Generally speaking, when somebody wants other people to adopt a practice, they make sure that practice is fit-for-purpose themselves rather than expecting the people to whom they advocate to stop using things that are fit for purpose, then adopt something unfit-for-purpose, and then fix it. Your implication that lots of open source communities have historically not done that is absolutely true. But also it's why people don't want to talk to them much, too.

IRC isn’t an app, it’s a protocol. If you don’t like IRC clients as they exist, write or fund one of your own.

by Zetice 3y ago

IRC isn’t an app, it’s a protocol. If you don’t like IRC clients as they exist, write or fund one of your own.

I am well aware it isn't "an app". I was using IRC in about 1997 and stopped in about 2017 because other options that were better suited to my needs, and had the people I wanted to talk to, arose. The second part of your response isn't helping you move towards the end state you want. If anything, it's going the other way. Product empathy isn't optional--ask yourself: why would I write or fund an IRC client when I have things that work for me already? Like, this is the Linux-on-the-desktop advocacy all over again. "Your thing doesn't work for me because of X [usually literally X on Linux, but you get the idea], but Y does." "Well, expend time or money to fix X!" Why? You're the one who likes X. You're advocating for it. Why would I fix the thing you like when the thing I use already works? Take the sibling response to yours--I learned something new in seeing https://thelounge.chat https://thelounge.chat, and while I don't want to run software to deal with chat, that was a cool thing to see. I learned something! I'll remember it later! Contrast that to "do it yourself".

Zetice 3y ago
[flagged]
- eropple 3y ago
  I did "solve the problem". I use Slack and Discord to talk to the cohorts who used to be on IRC. Your behavior in this thread is really strange. Discord's a fine tool. So is Slack. I have nothing to fix, and my posts in this thread have been explaining why for me they're fit for purpose when IRC isn't. Why would I "do something about" a situation that isn't a problem for me?
  - Zetice 3y ago
    Then why bring up IRC’s lack of a “pleasant” app? Just seems like a problem you can and should solve for yourself, but is otherwise wholly unrelated to the protocol. One doesn’t complain about http because the mobile browser options aren’t to one’s liking.
    - boredtofears 3y ago
      You don't have to take responsibility for fixing something just because you criticized it. Fixating on the term used is a tad disingenuous. I think most people reading hacker news understands that the IRC ecosystem is being referenced here - not the protocol itself. IRC has been around 30+ years and it still doesn't have any great clients. If you wanted to build a featureful chat client IRC wouldn't even be a good choice because there is so many things missing from the spec.
      - Zetice 3y ago
        Sorry but this passive voice over a completely open system is intolerable. Fix it yourself. It annoys me.
        eropple 3y ago
        Let's put it as simply as possible, because there's the genuine possibility that you don't understand, rather than are just being an acrimonious troll. You wouldn't be Linux-on-the-desktopping as hard as you are if you didn't want people to use it. As such, if you, as an advocate of a thing, want other people to use it when the alternative is "continue using other things", then the least effective response is "fix it yourself". I don't need to fix it. I have alternatives that already do what I want. If you want to hector people to use the thing you want them to do, then you had best come correct.
        Zetice 3y ago
        If you have everything you need, why did you complain? And insults do you no good here. Would any of the hateful words you wrote above mean anything at all to you if I wrote them?

Dalewyn 3y ago

Why is this getting downvoted? The spirit of what's argued is right in line with the spirit of free protocols, open source software, and venture capital funding for new challenges.

eropple 3y ago
Generally speaking, when somebody wants other people to adopt a practice, they make sure that practice is fit-for-purpose themselves rather than expecting the people to whom they advocate to stop using things that are fit for purpose, then adopt something unfit-for-purpose, and then fix it. Your implication that lots of open source communities have historically not done that is absolutely true. But also it's why people don't want to talk to them much, too.