5 ms·

If they can buy it then I can opt out. It is an unconstitutional practice. If they didn’t think it was they wouldn’t go through the extra steps to get the data

by jwie 3y ago

If they can buy it then I can opt out. It is an unconstitutional practice. If they didn’t think it was they wouldn’t go through the extra steps to get the data. Outsourcing one part of the illegal enterprise doesn’t make the whole thing legal. But if they want to play this game, an interesting way to bait a Supreme Court case might be to request a CCPA delete for the NSAs “commercial” data.

space_fountain 3y ago
It's not just the NSA buying this data right? So is it illegal when say a marketing agency buys the data? If not why should it become illegal for the government?
- oneplane 3y ago
  Because the government can put you in jail and the marketing agency can't. (I think I heard this simplified response on the Risky Business podcast) Realistically, scraping people for their data like this should just not be allowed at all. People are more important than corporations.
  - seanp2k2 3y ago
    But in America, “corporations are people, my friend!”
    - eadler 3y ago
      Corporate personhood predates the formation of the United States and is not unique to the states.
  - jonhohle 3y ago
    The phrase I’m familiar with is Monopoly on Violence.
- iinnPP 3y ago
  It sure should be illegal all around. The second piece about comparing the government to a business isn't valid. There exist many laws and rules that apply only to the government. Not that I agree with the distinction. I think companies larger than the US government at formation should probably have rules to keep them good for humanity.
  - mtsr 3y ago
    Indeed. Many laws and regulations around government agencies (not US specific, as I’m in the EU) specify what the agency is allowed to do, rather than what it isn’t. This is much easier to enforce, although it does require more regular review of regulations (that specify the details) to keep with the time.
- retrocryptid 3y ago
  Because the marketing agency can't have you targeted in a drone stike.
  - lesuorac 3y ago
    Why not? Historically, corporations have had armed private forces that they've used to kill people. Although you may have miss the tamer recent version where Ebay sent "a bloody pig mask, a funeral wreath, and a book entitled “Grief Diaries: Surviving Loss of a Spouse", practiced installing a GPS tracker and then travelled 3000 miles to install one, "The Defendants also posted the Steiner’s address on Craigslist and other websites, inviting strangers to the Steiners’ home for sex parties, and advertising yard sales". The story has a happy ending though as "Defendant Wenig departed eBay with a $57 million severance package.". > https://www.techdirt.com/2021/07/29/exec-that-tried-to-send-critical-reporters-dead-pig-blames-drinking-culture-ebay/ https://www.techdirt.com/2021/07/29/exec-that-tried-to-send-... > https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.mad.236568/gov.uscourts.mad.236568.1.0.pdf https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.mad.236...
    - gottorf 3y ago
      That eBay story is wild, and does make you wonder how deep the rot must be in that company. Also, why on Earth does eBay need a "global intelligence center" and a "global security team"? Do they have a completely separate line of business that I'm not aware of? At least one person went to prison, so there's that.
    - rolph 3y ago
      there is truth in fiction: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syndicate_(series) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syndicate_(series) https://www.ea.com/games/syndicate https://www.ea.com/games/syndicate
    - SAI_Peregrinus 3y ago
      Any sufficiently powerful corporation is indistinguishable from a government. There aren't many corporations who currently exercise their money to get such power, but it's happened before and can certainly happen again.
- mrangle 3y ago
  For the same reason that the Constitutional protections exist to restrict the government, specifically.
hiatus 3y ago
> But if they want to play this game, an interesting way to bait a Supreme Court case might be to request a CCPA delete for the NSAs “commercial” data. Can state law compel a federal agency to do anything?
- jonhohle 3y ago
  > Can state law compel a federal agency to do anything? Within the jurisdiction of a state, probably. States rights should have precedent over federal except in cases that involve interstate activity. This is being tested in Texas right now with various firearm laws that are meant for items made in and staying within Texas.
  - hiatus 3y ago
    The Texas situation as I understand it is the state refusing to enforce federal law, which makes sense as the federal government has their own enforcement agencies. That seems a bit different from the state compelling the federal government to do anything.
hulitu 3y ago
> an interesting way to bait a Supreme Court case might be to request a CCPA delete for the NSAs “commercial” data. Good luck with that. You cannot delete something which "doesn't exists". /s
- mycall 3y ago
  Only a whistleblower could make this happen.

by jwie 3y ago

space_fountain 3y ago

It's not just the NSA buying this data right? So is it illegal when say a marketing agency buys the data? If not why should it become illegal for the government?

oneplane 3y ago
Because the government can put you in jail and the marketing agency can't. (I think I heard this simplified response on the Risky Business podcast) Realistically, scraping people for their data like this should just not be allowed at all. People are more important than corporations.
- seanp2k2 3y ago
  But in America, “corporations are people, my friend!”
  - eadler 3y ago
    Corporate personhood predates the formation of the United States and is not unique to the states.
- jonhohle 3y ago
  The phrase I’m familiar with is Monopoly on Violence.
iinnPP 3y ago
It sure should be illegal all around. The second piece about comparing the government to a business isn't valid. There exist many laws and rules that apply only to the government. Not that I agree with the distinction. I think companies larger than the US government at formation should probably have rules to keep them good for humanity.
- mtsr 3y ago
  Indeed. Many laws and regulations around government agencies (not US specific, as I’m in the EU) specify what the agency is allowed to do, rather than what it isn’t. This is much easier to enforce, although it does require more regular review of regulations (that specify the details) to keep with the time.
retrocryptid 3y ago
Because the marketing agency can't have you targeted in a drone stike.
- lesuorac 3y ago
  Why not? Historically, corporations have had armed private forces that they've used to kill people. Although you may have miss the tamer recent version where Ebay sent "a bloody pig mask, a funeral wreath, and a book entitled “Grief Diaries: Surviving Loss of a Spouse", practiced installing a GPS tracker and then travelled 3000 miles to install one, "The Defendants also posted the Steiner’s address on Craigslist and other websites, inviting strangers to the Steiners’ home for sex parties, and advertising yard sales". The story has a happy ending though as "Defendant Wenig departed eBay with a $57 million severance package.". > https://www.techdirt.com/2021/07/29/exec-that-tried-to-send-critical-reporters-dead-pig-blames-drinking-culture-ebay/ https://www.techdirt.com/2021/07/29/exec-that-tried-to-send-... > https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.mad.236568/gov.uscourts.mad.236568.1.0.pdf https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.mad.236...
  - gottorf 3y ago
    That eBay story is wild, and does make you wonder how deep the rot must be in that company. Also, why on Earth does eBay need a "global intelligence center" and a "global security team"? Do they have a completely separate line of business that I'm not aware of? At least one person went to prison, so there's that.
  - rolph 3y ago
    there is truth in fiction: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syndicate_(series) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syndicate_(series) https://www.ea.com/games/syndicate https://www.ea.com/games/syndicate
  - SAI_Peregrinus 3y ago
    Any sufficiently powerful corporation is indistinguishable from a government. There aren't many corporations who currently exercise their money to get such power, but it's happened before and can certainly happen again.
mrangle 3y ago
For the same reason that the Constitutional protections exist to restrict the government, specifically.

hiatus 3y ago

> But if they want to play this game, an interesting way to bait a Supreme Court case might be to request a CCPA delete for the NSAs “commercial” data. Can state law compel a federal agency to do anything?

jonhohle 3y ago
> Can state law compel a federal agency to do anything? Within the jurisdiction of a state, probably. States rights should have precedent over federal except in cases that involve interstate activity. This is being tested in Texas right now with various firearm laws that are meant for items made in and staying within Texas.
- hiatus 3y ago
  The Texas situation as I understand it is the state refusing to enforce federal law, which makes sense as the federal government has their own enforcement agencies. That seems a bit different from the state compelling the federal government to do anything.

hulitu 3y ago

> an interesting way to bait a Supreme Court case might be to request a CCPA delete for the NSAs “commercial” data. Good luck with that. You cannot delete something which "doesn't exists". /s

mycall 3y ago
Only a whistleblower could make this happen.