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As a lay person, Metamorphosis is the strangest biological process I am aware of. Somehow they have evolved to almost completely break down and then reform as a

As a lay person, Metamorphosis is the strangest biological process I am aware of. Somehow they have evolved to almost completely break down and then reform as a new creature. How did something like this even come to be? Just a fascinating process that I struggle to understand. Insects, specifically social insect as a whole are just incredibly interesting to me as far as how completely alien they are to us.

sandworm101 3y ago
Human embryos go through some crazy changes too. Parts grow and are reabsorbed (tails). Many animals also shed hard exoskeletons regularly (lobsters, spiders). That involves softening up the inner animal. Perhaps that was a part-way step towards full metomorphosis.
- usrusr 3y ago
  Another interesting perspective is to look at it not as a more elaborate form of exoskeleton shedding, but as hatching from a very sophisticated egg.
  - derefr 3y ago
    Or as similar to a two-generation-cycle parasite that alternates between a host-A form creating eggs that grow into a host-B form (creating eggs that grow into a host-A form, etc.) The pupa internally "gestates" the adult as a parthenogenetic clone-child; the adult being gestated, absorbs the pupal parent's entire body for nutrients — and, crucially, the pupal parent's body allows this absorption of its entire body, producing no immune response to it, because they have the same DNA. As with a cyclic parasite, you get two different complete lifecycles, that are each born, live, and die from the same genetic program, given a different epigenetic kickstart, in a back-and-forth cycle.
    - cvwright 3y ago
      This sounds strangely similar to the code for the Morris worm.
simonh 3y ago
I think the hypothesis is that it started as a delay in the internal development of wings. This split the creatures life cycle into a pre-winged feeding stage and a post-winged adult breeding stage. The possession of wings in the later stage created a very different environmental situation, so the selective pressures on the winged stage are very different from those in the pre winged stage. These cause a split in the evolutionary environment of pre and post winged stages, causing selection for further divergent trait acquisition in the transitional stage during wing development. Not an entomologist though, so if anyone has a better understanding I’d be grateful.
- chrisco255 3y ago
  Frogs go through this process too though, and they don't have wings.
  - wonderwonder 3y ago
    Frogs are strange too, but not as odd as insects at least to me. Frogs almost seem to just pause growth and then resume it. Definitely interesting as well though.
    - afavour 3y ago
      > pause growth and then resume it Which shouldn’t feel so alien to us because human childhoods are a period of much slower growth than you see in other animals. Not a pause but still. IIRC it’s speculated that slowed growth is to give time for the brain to mature and to learn but either way it’s interesting to think about. If we grew the way dogs and cows do we’d be fully grown by around 10 years old.
      - wonderwonder 3y ago
        You are right, and I am hard pressed to think of anything scarier than a pack 10 year olds with the strength of a man. Society may have taken an interesting direction.
  - 3y ago
xwdv 3y ago
Someday, I predict humans will be able to undergo a similar process. Our main obstacle is building a suitable cocoon structure that could hold a human for the duration of the metamorphosis. Essentially what we do is trigger a process that can rembryonize the body and break down the excess material into base elements. This stew of embryo and nutrients then goes through a process of regrowth over the course of 9 months until the human has become a newborn baby again, with some core memories retained. Once born, the baby learns to walk and talk all over again until they are as functional as before the metamorphosis. The obvious advantage of this process is you can regenerate a body if your current one is no longer suitable, due to disease, degeneration, or even dysphoria.
- jallasprit 3y ago
  Interesting idea, but I wonder how DNA error correction is going to function over artificially extended lifespans
- joker_minmax 3y ago
  To me this reads as a really complicated form of physician assisted suicide. I also think the marketability of this would be complicated, as most adult people would want to start over in their teens or twenties, not as a baby.
  - xwdv 3y ago
    Starting as a baby gives you a better chance at building a foundation for the kind of lifestyle you want when you reach your teens or twenties. Those baby years will go by quickly anyway. It isn’t really suicide because your consciousness isn’t extinguished, you just end up unconscious for a bit while you restructure.
    - saagarjha 3y ago
      Who is going to raise a baby with the mind of an adult?
      - 3y ago
alserio 3y ago
In a sense organizing tissues is the thing multicellular life does.

sandworm101 3y ago

Human embryos go through some crazy changes too. Parts grow and are reabsorbed (tails). Many animals also shed hard exoskeletons regularly (lobsters, spiders). That involves softening up the inner animal. Perhaps that was a part-way step towards full metomorphosis.

usrusr 3y ago
Another interesting perspective is to look at it not as a more elaborate form of exoskeleton shedding, but as hatching from a very sophisticated egg.
- derefr 3y ago
  Or as similar to a two-generation-cycle parasite that alternates between a host-A form creating eggs that grow into a host-B form (creating eggs that grow into a host-A form, etc.) The pupa internally "gestates" the adult as a parthenogenetic clone-child; the adult being gestated, absorbs the pupal parent's entire body for nutrients — and, crucially, the pupal parent's body allows this absorption of its entire body, producing no immune response to it, because they have the same DNA. As with a cyclic parasite, you get two different complete lifecycles, that are each born, live, and die from the same genetic program, given a different epigenetic kickstart, in a back-and-forth cycle.
  - cvwright 3y ago
    This sounds strangely similar to the code for the Morris worm.

simonh 3y ago

I think the hypothesis is that it started as a delay in the internal development of wings. This split the creatures life cycle into a pre-winged feeding stage and a post-winged adult breeding stage. The possession of wings in the later stage created a very different environmental situation, so the selective pressures on the winged stage are very different from those in the pre winged stage. These cause a split in the evolutionary environment of pre and post winged stages, causing selection for further divergent trait acquisition in the transitional stage during wing development. Not an entomologist though, so if anyone has a better understanding I’d be grateful.

chrisco255 3y ago
Frogs go through this process too though, and they don't have wings.
- wonderwonder 3y ago
  Frogs are strange too, but not as odd as insects at least to me. Frogs almost seem to just pause growth and then resume it. Definitely interesting as well though.
  - afavour 3y ago
    > pause growth and then resume it Which shouldn’t feel so alien to us because human childhoods are a period of much slower growth than you see in other animals. Not a pause but still. IIRC it’s speculated that slowed growth is to give time for the brain to mature and to learn but either way it’s interesting to think about. If we grew the way dogs and cows do we’d be fully grown by around 10 years old.
    - wonderwonder 3y ago
      You are right, and I am hard pressed to think of anything scarier than a pack 10 year olds with the strength of a man. Society may have taken an interesting direction.
- 3y ago

xwdv 3y ago

Someday, I predict humans will be able to undergo a similar process. Our main obstacle is building a suitable cocoon structure that could hold a human for the duration of the metamorphosis. Essentially what we do is trigger a process that can rembryonize the body and break down the excess material into base elements. This stew of embryo and nutrients then goes through a process of regrowth over the course of 9 months until the human has become a newborn baby again, with some core memories retained. Once born, the baby learns to walk and talk all over again until they are as functional as before the metamorphosis. The obvious advantage of this process is you can regenerate a body if your current one is no longer suitable, due to disease, degeneration, or even dysphoria.

jallasprit 3y ago
Interesting idea, but I wonder how DNA error correction is going to function over artificially extended lifespans
joker_minmax 3y ago
To me this reads as a really complicated form of physician assisted suicide. I also think the marketability of this would be complicated, as most adult people would want to start over in their teens or twenties, not as a baby.
- xwdv 3y ago
  Starting as a baby gives you a better chance at building a foundation for the kind of lifestyle you want when you reach your teens or twenties. Those baby years will go by quickly anyway. It isn’t really suicide because your consciousness isn’t extinguished, you just end up unconscious for a bit while you restructure.
  - saagarjha 3y ago
    Who is going to raise a baby with the mind of an adult?
    - 3y ago

alserio 3y ago

In a sense organizing tissues is the thing multicellular life does.