4 ms·

Europe has a long history with the Indian diaspora. Particularly in East Europe, where to Romany, a people of Indian origin, have lived for hundreds of years. T

Europe has a long history with the Indian diaspora. Particularly in East Europe, where to Romany, a people of Indian origin, have lived for hundreds of years. The two regions have long historical ties that I think should continue to be strengthened. Shame that Europe fails to acknowledge the history of slavery it made them endure and lacks the will to correct it.

xNeil 3y ago
While your point is quite interesting (I didn't know Romanis originated from India!), they did emigrate around 1000 CE, or 1000 years ago. I'm not sure whether you can even call them of Indian origin anymore?
emptyfile 3y ago
[dead]
thevania 3y ago
[flagged]
quonn 3y ago
First of all, Europe (which is in many respects not a single entity) has extensively acknowledged injustices done to Roma. Second, no, there are not relevant historical ties there anymore. Otherwise you could argue that Italy has ties to Egypt due to the Romans or Greece has ties to India due to Alexander. Perhaps India should acknowledge it‘s own history before lecturing Europe, which is a history of surpressing the scheduled castes - in many ways comparable to the Roma.
4gotunameagain 3y ago
what more could be done to correct it? gypsie communities already receive great support without contributing anything. gypsie communities are incredibly narrow minded, conservative and sexist, I find it perplexing that typical left wing people tend to support them. I guess they don't really know what's up because they've never met any. gypsies actively shun their own that go to school. Not university or college. School. they buy their wives from their parents. they expect everything from the state/host society, and give nothing back.
- gumballindie 3y ago
  Whoa, ok. Amasing. I am however glad you made this comment. I want the world to learn about what’s happening in europe. Both east and west are guilty of an ongoing genocide and no one wants to talk about it and rectify this atrocious mistake. I hope Indians will not take this kindly, because even though Romany are European there are some in their community that are proud of their origin and seek closer ties. And to be fair I would support any political movement that wants to help these people get back on their feet and one way is even more vocal support from India (Mody already acknowledged their origin). Roma people are valuable to Europe. They are a folk that need to emerge and assert their rightful place in Europe’s history.
  - 4gotunameagain 3y ago
    And your comments make it clear that you have never interacted with gypsies or their communities, and only view them through a romanticised version of the internet. > I would support any political movement that wants to help these people get back on their feet It is them who do not want something different. Imposing your view on their world does not work, they do not want change. What exactly are their contributions that make them valuable to Europe?
    - gumballindie 3y ago
      I have actually. But see, it’s difficult to get them to open up. Many hide their identity as well as they can due to fear of abuse. Confusing the criminal minority in their community with their culture is wrong. And i am suspecting you are making this confusion. Roma people are not what you think they are.
      - 4gotunameagain 3y ago
        I grew up in the Balkans. There were two large gypsy camps near my city. I went to prison, which coincidentally is packed with gypsies (and not because they are being discriminated against). I've met countless gypsies, their families, etc. An ex girlfriend used to voluntarily go to the gypsy camp with a mobile school to teach them basic, primary school stuff. They did not want to learn and only made sexist comments (the kids.). Gypsies unfortunately have no place in a post industrial western society. Sure, their seemingly anarchistic lifestyle is romantic and attractive, but it is far from the reality.
accurrent 3y ago
I'm Indian and I dont think "Europe" enslaved India. Britain did. But Britain is not Europe. France and portugal had some small colonies but none of the other european powers were too successful. India has had a long history of trading with rome, greece and the rest of europe for at least 3500years.
- gumballindie 3y ago
  It’s not India I am referring to. It’s the Romany people that are of Indian origin.
saiya-jin 3y ago
Do you actually live in Eastern Europe? It certainly doesn't seem so. Roma population are one of the saddest sights I've ever seen, there is minimal integration with rest of societies, ans absolutely 0 integration with India, most of population doesn't even understand their history. Also, not sure if you are linking Roma and slavery, at least in East that was absolutely never the case, in contrary there were medieval laws banning them from entering cities etc. Communism tried to integrate them into society by force (if you didn't work the work state assigned you, you went straight to jail, or gave them whole apartment blocks which they destroyed beyond repair, see [1]), it worked till the iron hand fell with iron curtain and Roma unemployment reached 98-99% levels. Most, at least in Slovakia, continue to live in extremely basic illegal slums, see [2]. Its still quite normal to see naked kids run around in dirt all year long, including heavy snow. There are massive health and social issues within community, addictions, parasites and other easily treatable sickness, massive amount of incests, by 15 most Roma girls are already mothers (seen it myself in school), standard amount of kids parents have is 10-12 to get most out of social support. States and society basically gave up, there is no quick solution, and solution that may work would take at least 5-10 election periods, so nobody bothers. [1] https://www.google.com/search?q=lunik+IX&client=firefox-b-d&tbm=isch&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjnmvSr2rOAAxV_hP0HHablCCMQ_AUoAXoECAEQAw&biw=2377&bih=1178&dpr=1 https://www.google.com/search?q=lunik+IX&client=firefox-b-d&... [2] https://www.google.com/search?q=roma+settlements+in+eastern+slovakia&client=firefox-b-d&tbm=isch&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiStPfL2rOAAxUyi_0HHUzsB7oQ_AUoAXoECAMQAw&biw=2377&bih=1178&dpr=1#imgrc=vayTxj9yDEccXM https://www.google.com/search?q=roma+settlements+in+eastern+...
- gumballindie 3y ago
  I did live in east europe, and whenever I go there and witness this ongoing genocide my stomach turns inside out as much as it does when i witness their status in west europe. Roma people being discriminated heavily in both east and west europe is telling of what europeans have done in their past to other peoples. “Integration” is an euphemism for erasure. Their unique culture shouldn’t be mistaken for what some elements of their society do thanks to centuries of marginalisation, genocide and slavery. An assertive India may be beneficial to them. Mody has acknowledged their origin. And although they are a European folk I am resorting to India as that may be their only hope of support for emergence. As I told another commenter I am glad for your reply. I want people to learn about how the Roma live, and how they are treated and I want them to hear it from those that don’t like them.
oblio 3y ago
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't the Indians that came to Europe basically outcasts? They didn't leave India because India was being nice to them... So there's shame on both sides.
- OfSanguineFire 3y ago
  Contemporary scholarship has posited that the ancestors of the Roma left India as e.g. camp followers of armies pursuing their livelihoods, not necessarily as outcasts intentionally turning their backs on India.
  - oblio 3y ago
    > Their original name is from the Sanskrit word डोम (doma) and means a member of a Dalit caste of travelling musicians and dancers. For those unaware, Dalits are "untouchables", the lowest Indian caste.
    - AwaAwa 3y ago
      Ironic that if they left India on their own, they were and are treated worse in Europe. Meanwhile in India today, of just the ruling party's 303 representative seats, 190 are held by the 'lower caste' (officially under either the Scheduled Caste or Scheduled Tribe lists, or Other Backward Caste list). Really puts paid to the affirmative action fueled india-bad-caste-bad-hindu-bad notion that gets so much traction in Europe.
      - oblio 3y ago
        The real question is: how are their socioeconomic stats? That's the crux of the matter. I'd be happy to hear that they're average or above.
  - gumballindie 3y ago
    Some sources indicate they were captured from india by the mongols and then brought to europe only to be enslaved again. These people are seriously unfortunate.

xNeil 3y ago

While your point is quite interesting (I didn't know Romanis originated from India!), they did emigrate around 1000 CE, or 1000 years ago. I'm not sure whether you can even call them of Indian origin anymore?

emptyfile 3y ago

[dead]

thevania 3y ago

[flagged]

quonn 3y ago

First of all, Europe (which is in many respects not a single entity) has extensively acknowledged injustices done to Roma. Second, no, there are not relevant historical ties there anymore. Otherwise you could argue that Italy has ties to Egypt due to the Romans or Greece has ties to India due to Alexander. Perhaps India should acknowledge it‘s own history before lecturing Europe, which is a history of surpressing the scheduled castes - in many ways comparable to the Roma.

4gotunameagain 3y ago

what more could be done to correct it? gypsie communities already receive great support without contributing anything. gypsie communities are incredibly narrow minded, conservative and sexist, I find it perplexing that typical left wing people tend to support them. I guess they don't really know what's up because they've never met any. gypsies actively shun their own that go to school. Not university or college. School. they buy their wives from their parents. they expect everything from the state/host society, and give nothing back.

gumballindie 3y ago
Whoa, ok. Amasing. I am however glad you made this comment. I want the world to learn about what’s happening in europe. Both east and west are guilty of an ongoing genocide and no one wants to talk about it and rectify this atrocious mistake. I hope Indians will not take this kindly, because even though Romany are European there are some in their community that are proud of their origin and seek closer ties. And to be fair I would support any political movement that wants to help these people get back on their feet and one way is even more vocal support from India (Mody already acknowledged their origin). Roma people are valuable to Europe. They are a folk that need to emerge and assert their rightful place in Europe’s history.
- 4gotunameagain 3y ago
  And your comments make it clear that you have never interacted with gypsies or their communities, and only view them through a romanticised version of the internet. > I would support any political movement that wants to help these people get back on their feet It is them who do not want something different. Imposing your view on their world does not work, they do not want change. What exactly are their contributions that make them valuable to Europe?
  - gumballindie 3y ago
    I have actually. But see, it’s difficult to get them to open up. Many hide their identity as well as they can due to fear of abuse. Confusing the criminal minority in their community with their culture is wrong. And i am suspecting you are making this confusion. Roma people are not what you think they are.
    - 4gotunameagain 3y ago
      I grew up in the Balkans. There were two large gypsy camps near my city. I went to prison, which coincidentally is packed with gypsies (and not because they are being discriminated against). I've met countless gypsies, their families, etc. An ex girlfriend used to voluntarily go to the gypsy camp with a mobile school to teach them basic, primary school stuff. They did not want to learn and only made sexist comments (the kids.). Gypsies unfortunately have no place in a post industrial western society. Sure, their seemingly anarchistic lifestyle is romantic and attractive, but it is far from the reality.

accurrent 3y ago

I'm Indian and I dont think "Europe" enslaved India. Britain did. But Britain is not Europe. France and portugal had some small colonies but none of the other european powers were too successful. India has had a long history of trading with rome, greece and the rest of europe for at least 3500years.

gumballindie 3y ago
It’s not India I am referring to. It’s the Romany people that are of Indian origin.

saiya-jin 3y ago

Do you actually live in Eastern Europe? It certainly doesn't seem so. Roma population are one of the saddest sights I've ever seen, there is minimal integration with rest of societies, ans absolutely 0 integration with India, most of population doesn't even understand their history. Also, not sure if you are linking Roma and slavery, at least in East that was absolutely never the case, in contrary there were medieval laws banning them from entering cities etc. Communism tried to integrate them into society by force (if you didn't work the work state assigned you, you went straight to jail, or gave them whole apartment blocks which they destroyed beyond repair, see [1]), it worked till the iron hand fell with iron curtain and Roma unemployment reached 98-99% levels. Most, at least in Slovakia, continue to live in extremely basic illegal slums, see [2]. Its still quite normal to see naked kids run around in dirt all year long, including heavy snow. There are massive health and social issues within community, addictions, parasites and other easily treatable sickness, massive amount of incests, by 15 most Roma girls are already mothers (seen it myself in school), standard amount of kids parents have is 10-12 to get most out of social support. States and society basically gave up, there is no quick solution, and solution that may work would take at least 5-10 election periods, so nobody bothers. [1] https://www.google.com/search?q=lunik+IX&client=firefox-b-d&tbm=isch&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjnmvSr2rOAAxV_hP0HHablCCMQ_AUoAXoECAEQAw&biw=2377&bih=1178&dpr=1 https://www.google.com/search?q=lunik+IX&client=firefox-b-d&... [2] https://www.google.com/search?q=roma+settlements+in+eastern+slovakia&client=firefox-b-d&tbm=isch&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiStPfL2rOAAxUyi_0HHUzsB7oQ_AUoAXoECAMQAw&biw=2377&bih=1178&dpr=1#imgrc=vayTxj9yDEccXM https://www.google.com/search?q=roma+settlements+in+eastern+...

gumballindie 3y ago
I did live in east europe, and whenever I go there and witness this ongoing genocide my stomach turns inside out as much as it does when i witness their status in west europe. Roma people being discriminated heavily in both east and west europe is telling of what europeans have done in their past to other peoples. “Integration” is an euphemism for erasure. Their unique culture shouldn’t be mistaken for what some elements of their society do thanks to centuries of marginalisation, genocide and slavery. An assertive India may be beneficial to them. Mody has acknowledged their origin. And although they are a European folk I am resorting to India as that may be their only hope of support for emergence. As I told another commenter I am glad for your reply. I want people to learn about how the Roma live, and how they are treated and I want them to hear it from those that don’t like them.

oblio 3y ago

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't the Indians that came to Europe basically outcasts? They didn't leave India because India was being nice to them... So there's shame on both sides.

OfSanguineFire 3y ago
Contemporary scholarship has posited that the ancestors of the Roma left India as e.g. camp followers of armies pursuing their livelihoods, not necessarily as outcasts intentionally turning their backs on India.
- oblio 3y ago
  > Their original name is from the Sanskrit word डोम (doma) and means a member of a Dalit caste of travelling musicians and dancers. For those unaware, Dalits are "untouchables", the lowest Indian caste.
  - AwaAwa 3y ago
    Ironic that if they left India on their own, they were and are treated worse in Europe. Meanwhile in India today, of just the ruling party's 303 representative seats, 190 are held by the 'lower caste' (officially under either the Scheduled Caste or Scheduled Tribe lists, or Other Backward Caste list). Really puts paid to the affirmative action fueled india-bad-caste-bad-hindu-bad notion that gets so much traction in Europe.
    - oblio 3y ago
      The real question is: how are their socioeconomic stats? That's the crux of the matter. I'd be happy to hear that they're average or above.
- gumballindie 3y ago
  Some sources indicate they were captured from india by the mongols and then brought to europe only to be enslaved again. These people are seriously unfortunate.