3 ms·

If the locals wish to spend their resources in this way, that's for them to decide, not you. It isn't a waste if it is valued by someone who pays for it.

thepaulmcbride 3y ago
Rarely are all of the things burnt paid for. A lot of the pallets etc are stolen from local businesses.
- HeckFeck 3y ago
  I think someone would notice if several thousand pallets were being stolen from his business.
  - thombat 3y ago
    Given the long history of sectarian violence a business may notice but choose not to make a fuss. Especially a Catholic-owned business.
  - thepaulmcbride 3y ago
    They definitely notice. https://belfastmedia.com/mystery-surrounds-source-of-thousands-of-pallets-and-pounds-going-up-in-smoke https://belfastmedia.com/mystery-surrounds-source-of-thousan... The red and blue pallets specifically are owned by just two companies. The pine pallets are stolen from local shopping centres etc.
    - HeckFeck 3y ago
      There isn’t any evidence in this article, just hearsay. I think if someone was driving a van out of a yard with dozens of palettes it would be noticed. And for them being red and blue, I think it is obvious why those colours would be purchased.
      - aardshark 3y ago
        17000 pallets are worth much more than £20,000, which apparently covers all the associated cost of the bonfire. They sure didn't buy all those pallets.
        HeckFeck 3y ago
        If that’s really the case then that’s extremely regrettable. Again I’d need hard evidence to be convinced, but I’m not going to except theft even for a cultural occasion. They should be raising the money voluntarily and collecting donations without coercion. Otherwise they aren’t helping their cause.
    - thepaulmcbride 3y ago
      Another example from a few years back. https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/3000-bonfire-pallets-stolen-in-raid-on-belfast-council-depot/35856827.html https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/3000-... You can believe that an event mostly orchestrated by paramilitary gangs is above board if you wish, but I know first hand that many of these palettes are stolen.
  - Dylan1312 3y ago
    Important context here is that many of these are in areas where businesses are still paying protection money to the paramilitary organisiations organising the bonfire.
Toutouxc 3y ago
It’s a good thing then that they also completely cover the externalities and burn it in an airtight dome. Wait, they don’t? So maybe it does concern me after all.
- HeckFeck 3y ago
  I'd be interested to hear how this suggestion of yours might scale. I can think of many other things that affect the atmosphere a thousandfold compared to a few bonfires, likely including activities you might enjoy and I might not.
  - Toutouxc 3y ago
    And quite a lot of them are getting regulated or have been regulated for decades, how does government regulation not scale? There are countries, times and places where you can’t light a bonfire anymore. There are things you are not allowed to burn at all. There are things you are not allowed to spill, things you aren’t allowed to transport, things you aren’t allowed to discard without permission. Honest question, what is the thing that affects the atmosphere that much and we can’t regulate it?
    - defrost 3y ago
      > Honest question, what is the thing that affects the atmosphere that much and we can’t regulate it? CO2 sourced from fossil fuels that have been buried for tens of millions of years all being dragged up in the one century. As opposed to C02 from the surface vegetation cycle of absorption and release; by say, growing pine trees, making pallets, burning pallets, growing more trees.
      - Toutouxc 3y ago
        While I personally thing we should do much more than we’re currently doing, fossil fuels have been a hot topic for at least the last decade and the push towards renewables and possibly nuclear is either underway or being seriously discussed pretty much everywhere. So that’s clearly thing we’re technically able to regulate, despite the pushback from big oil. And you’re right that most of the pallets were made of wood grown for the purpose, and burning them is essentially carbon neutral, but the whole industry requires a steady input of fossil fuels for the machines and electricity for the services, which shifts the whole thing firmly into “waste of energy” territory again.

thepaulmcbride 3y ago

Rarely are all of the things burnt paid for. A lot of the pallets etc are stolen from local businesses.

HeckFeck 3y ago
I think someone would notice if several thousand pallets were being stolen from his business.
- thombat 3y ago
  Given the long history of sectarian violence a business may notice but choose not to make a fuss. Especially a Catholic-owned business.
- thepaulmcbride 3y ago
  They definitely notice. https://belfastmedia.com/mystery-surrounds-source-of-thousands-of-pallets-and-pounds-going-up-in-smoke https://belfastmedia.com/mystery-surrounds-source-of-thousan... The red and blue pallets specifically are owned by just two companies. The pine pallets are stolen from local shopping centres etc.
  - HeckFeck 3y ago
    There isn’t any evidence in this article, just hearsay. I think if someone was driving a van out of a yard with dozens of palettes it would be noticed. And for them being red and blue, I think it is obvious why those colours would be purchased.
    - aardshark 3y ago
      17000 pallets are worth much more than £20,000, which apparently covers all the associated cost of the bonfire. They sure didn't buy all those pallets.
      - HeckFeck 3y ago
        If that’s really the case then that’s extremely regrettable. Again I’d need hard evidence to be convinced, but I’m not going to except theft even for a cultural occasion. They should be raising the money voluntarily and collecting donations without coercion. Otherwise they aren’t helping their cause.
  - thepaulmcbride 3y ago
    Another example from a few years back. https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/3000-bonfire-pallets-stolen-in-raid-on-belfast-council-depot/35856827.html https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/3000-... You can believe that an event mostly orchestrated by paramilitary gangs is above board if you wish, but I know first hand that many of these palettes are stolen.
- Dylan1312 3y ago
  Important context here is that many of these are in areas where businesses are still paying protection money to the paramilitary organisiations organising the bonfire.

Toutouxc 3y ago

It’s a good thing then that they also completely cover the externalities and burn it in an airtight dome. Wait, they don’t? So maybe it does concern me after all.

HeckFeck 3y ago
I'd be interested to hear how this suggestion of yours might scale. I can think of many other things that affect the atmosphere a thousandfold compared to a few bonfires, likely including activities you might enjoy and I might not.
- Toutouxc 3y ago
  And quite a lot of them are getting regulated or have been regulated for decades, how does government regulation not scale? There are countries, times and places where you can’t light a bonfire anymore. There are things you are not allowed to burn at all. There are things you are not allowed to spill, things you aren’t allowed to transport, things you aren’t allowed to discard without permission. Honest question, what is the thing that affects the atmosphere that much and we can’t regulate it?
  - defrost 3y ago
    > Honest question, what is the thing that affects the atmosphere that much and we can’t regulate it? CO2 sourced from fossil fuels that have been buried for tens of millions of years all being dragged up in the one century. As opposed to C02 from the surface vegetation cycle of absorption and release; by say, growing pine trees, making pallets, burning pallets, growing more trees.
    - Toutouxc 3y ago
      While I personally thing we should do much more than we’re currently doing, fossil fuels have been a hot topic for at least the last decade and the push towards renewables and possibly nuclear is either underway or being seriously discussed pretty much everywhere. So that’s clearly thing we’re technically able to regulate, despite the pushback from big oil. And you’re right that most of the pallets were made of wood grown for the purpose, and burning them is essentially carbon neutral, but the whole industry requires a steady input of fossil fuels for the machines and electricity for the services, which shifts the whole thing firmly into “waste of energy” territory again.