7 ms·

Larne Craigyhill bonfire: 17000 pallets (2021)

23 points by daverol 3y ago

cafard 3y ago
Apart from anything else, do you really want to be around burning pallets? Who knows what kind of chemicals have been used on them? I used to see pallets set out free for the taking, and never ever considered using them in a fireplace.
ggm 3y ago
A hugely divisive protestant celebration of the occupation and ascendency of England over Ireland in 1690. It's an impressive bonfire. It celebrates sectarianism. Not unlike November 11 it's got unpleasant overtones. I wonder what level of fire safety distancing they do, and how it scales linearly or non linearly to size. I could believe this size of fire would loft burning materials for miles and affect air quality, as well as the environment. It's industrial pallets often.
- thesaintlives 3y ago
  We English love Guy Fawkes. What you on about? Let people have their fun!
  - pringk02 3y ago
    Guy Fawkes night is on the 5th. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eleventh_Night https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eleventh_Night
    - ggm 3y ago
      A possible confusion here is MYD vs YMD both bonfire nights having an 11 in them. And I did say guy fawkes night as a comparator to July 11, both have roots in anti catholic fervour.
  - ggm 3y ago
    You go right ahead and blow your fingers off. (Terry Pratchett's footnote about being allowed to light one firework carefully from 15 feet away with a long stick comes to mind)
- HeckFeck 3y ago
  Historically the Catholic church and Cathloc monarchs did make claims and undertook actions that threatened the security and freedom of Protestants, and the Irish Republic made claims over the North that Protestants saw as a threat, so the bonfires and parades with their positive self assertion can be understood in this context. That said, I think we can all condemn oblique hatred of the other side, and that's very much present in both sides.
  - unmole 3y ago
    When was the last time a Catholic monarch threatened Northern Ireland? And How many divisions has the Pope?
    - HeckFeck 3y ago
      The key word was ‘historically’, when relating to the likes of James or Bloody Mary. Lots of people feel deeply connected to their history and struggle, why should Northern Protestants be deprived of theirs? The Pope had something more powerful than divisions: words and authority over his flock. Back in the day that commanded more loyalty than to monarch. But in recent times, the source of the violence was the IRA and other Republican groups.
      - defrost 3y ago
        and the phrase "violently opposed by Ulster loyalists" never once was uttered during the time of the troubles? Nor indeed the sentence "The police, the Royal Ulster Constabulary (RUC), were overwhelmingly Protestant and known for sectarianism and police brutality.? Pretty sure it takes two side to keep that shit up for three decades and more. ( Both extracts sourced from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Troubles https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Troubles )
        HeckFeck 3y ago
        I’d just ask that external observers try to understand the Protestant and Unionist side too. They are often maligned in a simplistic ‘good vs evil’ narrative. You’d be surprised by their hospitality and industry. I’’d never deny that there was brutality and violence from both sides, any ethno-religious conflict with long roots in the past is going to have this problem. Targeting of civilians is wrong, and it always happens in these conflicts, which is why we should strive to avoid them. Targeting of combatants and mingling the categories to give cover, well that’s something else completely. It puts the authorities in a tricky situation where the right choices aren’t obvious.
elfbargpt 3y ago
I ended up going to Belfast the weekend of the bonfires without knowing it existed beforehand--was a totally surreal experience. The largest man-made fires I'd ever seen right in the middle of the city streets, armored cars driving around, not many safety protocols. Kids were drinking buckfast and climbing to the top of skinny stacks that had to be over 100 feet tall. I would definitely recommend checking it out to anyone that can. Some pictures I just googled: https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo/eleventh-night.html?sortBy=relevant https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo/eleventh-night.html?sortBy...
pringk02 3y ago
My Dad grew up in Belfast during the troubles, and was raised protestant. It's always been really interesting to me to hear his perspective on stuff like this, as he is always sort of amazed by how normalised things like putting effegies of the pope on these was back then. And how he never really thought about it until he moved, not exactly far, to Edinburgh and understood that Belfast was a place very different to most of the world at the time. He talks often about how you would have photos of the Mayor of Belfast shaking hands with loyalist leaders infront of one of these bonfires with the effigy of the Pope in the background and it would be seen as a good thing, a positive PR moment for the mayor.
- pringk02 3y ago
  It's still not dead obviously, but less publicly endorsed. Here's some from just last year with images of the pope, the palestinian flag (there's an undercurrent of NI Republican solidarity with Palestine), and the tricolour: https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2022/07/13/news/psni_gathering_evidence_about_flags_posters_and_effigies_on_bonfires-2770836/ https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2022/07/1...
- arethuza 3y ago
  Edinburgh isn't, or at least wasn't, completely free of sectarian problems (obviously not as bad as NI) - we used to live close to the Hibs ground on Easter Road and when Rangers visited it wasn't exactly a pleasant atmosphere. Mind you - that was 25+ years ago!
  - smcl 3y ago
    I don't think it's ever going away. Rangers just announced their away shirt for next season (blue and orange stripes) and you had a weird situation with rangers fans both feigning innocence "why are you so offended by a colour?" in one thread and giggling about how having an orange kit will wind up the Celtic supporters in another.
- trilbyglens 3y ago
  Isn't the pope burning still pretty common throughout england?
disambiguation 3y ago
The biggest fire the North has ever seen! Here it is burning up in 2021: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2i6xpWmh-Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2i6xpWmh-Q
- ycombinete 3y ago
  I cannot believe that’s how they light it.
Toutouxc 3y ago
Call me new-fashioned, but this crap should not be legal. I get cars, I get people heating their homes with wood, I get burning coal for electricity, but this is just a middle finger to the environment and a huge waste of energy (approximately 1.8 GWh).
- HeckFeck 3y ago
  If the locals wish to spend their resources in this way, that's for them to decide, not you. It isn't a waste if it is valued by someone who pays for it.
  - thepaulmcbride 3y ago
    Rarely are all of the things burnt paid for. A lot of the pallets etc are stolen from local businesses.
    - HeckFeck 3y ago
      I think someone would notice if several thousand pallets were being stolen from his business.
      - thombat 3y ago
        Given the long history of sectarian violence a business may notice but choose not to make a fuss. Especially a Catholic-owned business.
      - thepaulmcbride 3y ago
        They definitely notice. https://belfastmedia.com/mystery-surrounds-source-of-thousands-of-pallets-and-pounds-going-up-in-smoke https://belfastmedia.com/mystery-surrounds-source-of-thousan... The red and blue pallets specifically are owned by just two companies. The pine pallets are stolen from local shopping centres etc.
        HeckFeck 3y ago
chrisjb 3y ago
Logistics professionals hate them, learn how to destroy 3/4 of a million dollars using this one weird trick.
- appleflaxen 3y ago
  The article quotes the price at 20k
  - sokoloff 3y ago
    Are you inclined to believe that a pallet is worth less than £1.18? I’m not an expert in the pallet supply chain, but that seems extraordinarily low to me.
    - BitPirate 3y ago
      If they are broken, why not? You can't use them to transport goods safely and they contain nails so people will hesitate to put them in a wood burner.
    - ljf 3y ago
      Near me (East of England) there seems to be no end of offers of free pallets from building and manufacturing trades - posts on local groups or adverts for as many pallets as you can take away. I was tempted to get some for a project, but the time to break them down put me off.
      - bombcar 3y ago
        Usable pallets are quite valuable in the right place. Broken pallets or ones in the wrong place are scrap.
Simon_O_Rourke 3y ago
Attempts to normalize this as some kind of folksy traditional community bonfire thing requires such levels of misdirection and sleight of a hand that they'd be better off doing magic shows in Vegas. These kinds of events are purely and simply displays of racist and sectarian hate - no different from burning crosses in Alabama. The effigies of the Pope are the more friendly of the things burned on these bonfires, the less palatable include Irish and Basque flags for whatever reason, slogans exhorting genocide, and even pictures of previous sectarian murder victims [1][2]. It's a thoroughly vile event that happens each year, wrapped up in some false sense of "culture". [1] - https://www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/belfast-news/sectarian-bonfires-condemned-after-flags-24470773 https://www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/belfast-news/sectarian-bo... [2] - https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/police-treating-material-on-rathcoole-bonfire-as-hate-crime/a848728777.html https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/pol...
- fdhfdjkfhdkj 3y ago
  [dead]
AnnikaL 3y ago
This is from 2021.
- dang 3y ago
  Added. Thanks!
Dylan1312 3y ago
For anyone interested in learning more, VICE did a decent documentary back in 2012 where they visit Belfast and speak to some of the people involved at a different bonfire site. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nzDuiv3U8o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nzDuiv3U8o
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
aaron695 3y ago
[dead]
azubinski 3y ago
It’s even a little pity that this wild senselessness was so rushed. After all, it was possible to time such a large symbolic burning of logistics for the Elbakyan's EFF award. Because The Absurdity must be brought to the limit.

23 points by daverol 3y ago

Apart from anything else, do you really want to be around burning pallets? Who knows what kind of chemicals have been used on them? I used to see pallets set out free for the taking, and never ever considered using them in a fireplace.

ggm 3y ago

A hugely divisive protestant celebration of the occupation and ascendency of England over Ireland in 1690. It's an impressive bonfire. It celebrates sectarianism. Not unlike November 11 it's got unpleasant overtones. I wonder what level of fire safety distancing they do, and how it scales linearly or non linearly to size. I could believe this size of fire would loft burning materials for miles and affect air quality, as well as the environment. It's industrial pallets often.

thesaintlives 3y ago
We English love Guy Fawkes. What you on about? Let people have their fun!
- pringk02 3y ago
  Guy Fawkes night is on the 5th. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eleventh_Night https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eleventh_Night
  - ggm 3y ago
    A possible confusion here is MYD vs YMD both bonfire nights having an 11 in them. And I did say guy fawkes night as a comparator to July 11, both have roots in anti catholic fervour.
- ggm 3y ago
  You go right ahead and blow your fingers off. (Terry Pratchett's footnote about being allowed to light one firework carefully from 15 feet away with a long stick comes to mind)
HeckFeck 3y ago
Historically the Catholic church and Cathloc monarchs did make claims and undertook actions that threatened the security and freedom of Protestants, and the Irish Republic made claims over the North that Protestants saw as a threat, so the bonfires and parades with their positive self assertion can be understood in this context. That said, I think we can all condemn oblique hatred of the other side, and that's very much present in both sides.
- unmole 3y ago
  When was the last time a Catholic monarch threatened Northern Ireland? And How many divisions has the Pope?
  - HeckFeck 3y ago
    The key word was ‘historically’, when relating to the likes of James or Bloody Mary. Lots of people feel deeply connected to their history and struggle, why should Northern Protestants be deprived of theirs? The Pope had something more powerful than divisions: words and authority over his flock. Back in the day that commanded more loyalty than to monarch. But in recent times, the source of the violence was the IRA and other Republican groups.
    - defrost 3y ago
      and the phrase "violently opposed by Ulster loyalists" never once was uttered during the time of the troubles? Nor indeed the sentence "The police, the Royal Ulster Constabulary (RUC), were overwhelmingly Protestant and known for sectarianism and police brutality.? Pretty sure it takes two side to keep that shit up for three decades and more. ( Both extracts sourced from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Troubles https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Troubles )
      - HeckFeck 3y ago
        I’d just ask that external observers try to understand the Protestant and Unionist side too. They are often maligned in a simplistic ‘good vs evil’ narrative. You’d be surprised by their hospitality and industry. I’’d never deny that there was brutality and violence from both sides, any ethno-religious conflict with long roots in the past is going to have this problem. Targeting of civilians is wrong, and it always happens in these conflicts, which is why we should strive to avoid them. Targeting of combatants and mingling the categories to give cover, well that’s something else completely. It puts the authorities in a tricky situation where the right choices aren’t obvious.

elfbargpt 3y ago

I ended up going to Belfast the weekend of the bonfires without knowing it existed beforehand--was a totally surreal experience. The largest man-made fires I'd ever seen right in the middle of the city streets, armored cars driving around, not many safety protocols. Kids were drinking buckfast and climbing to the top of skinny stacks that had to be over 100 feet tall. I would definitely recommend checking it out to anyone that can. Some pictures I just googled: https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo/eleventh-night.html?sortBy=relevant https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo/eleventh-night.html?sortBy...

pringk02 3y ago

My Dad grew up in Belfast during the troubles, and was raised protestant. It's always been really interesting to me to hear his perspective on stuff like this, as he is always sort of amazed by how normalised things like putting effegies of the pope on these was back then. And how he never really thought about it until he moved, not exactly far, to Edinburgh and understood that Belfast was a place very different to most of the world at the time. He talks often about how you would have photos of the Mayor of Belfast shaking hands with loyalist leaders infront of one of these bonfires with the effigy of the Pope in the background and it would be seen as a good thing, a positive PR moment for the mayor.

pringk02 3y ago
It's still not dead obviously, but less publicly endorsed. Here's some from just last year with images of the pope, the palestinian flag (there's an undercurrent of NI Republican solidarity with Palestine), and the tricolour: https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2022/07/13/news/psni_gathering_evidence_about_flags_posters_and_effigies_on_bonfires-2770836/ https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2022/07/1...
arethuza 3y ago
Edinburgh isn't, or at least wasn't, completely free of sectarian problems (obviously not as bad as NI) - we used to live close to the Hibs ground on Easter Road and when Rangers visited it wasn't exactly a pleasant atmosphere. Mind you - that was 25+ years ago!
- smcl 3y ago
  I don't think it's ever going away. Rangers just announced their away shirt for next season (blue and orange stripes) and you had a weird situation with rangers fans both feigning innocence "why are you so offended by a colour?" in one thread and giggling about how having an orange kit will wind up the Celtic supporters in another.
trilbyglens 3y ago
Isn't the pope burning still pretty common throughout england?

disambiguation 3y ago

The biggest fire the North has ever seen! Here it is burning up in 2021: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2i6xpWmh-Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2i6xpWmh-Q

ycombinete 3y ago
I cannot believe that’s how they light it.

Toutouxc 3y ago

Call me new-fashioned, but this crap should not be legal. I get cars, I get people heating their homes with wood, I get burning coal for electricity, but this is just a middle finger to the environment and a huge waste of energy (approximately 1.8 GWh).

HeckFeck 3y ago
If the locals wish to spend their resources in this way, that's for them to decide, not you. It isn't a waste if it is valued by someone who pays for it.
- thepaulmcbride 3y ago
  Rarely are all of the things burnt paid for. A lot of the pallets etc are stolen from local businesses.
  - HeckFeck 3y ago
    I think someone would notice if several thousand pallets were being stolen from his business.
    - thombat 3y ago
      Given the long history of sectarian violence a business may notice but choose not to make a fuss. Especially a Catholic-owned business.
    - thepaulmcbride 3y ago
      They definitely notice. https://belfastmedia.com/mystery-surrounds-source-of-thousands-of-pallets-and-pounds-going-up-in-smoke https://belfastmedia.com/mystery-surrounds-source-of-thousan... The red and blue pallets specifically are owned by just two companies. The pine pallets are stolen from local shopping centres etc.
      - HeckFeck 3y ago

chrisjb 3y ago

Logistics professionals hate them, learn how to destroy 3/4 of a million dollars using this one weird trick.

appleflaxen 3y ago
The article quotes the price at 20k
- sokoloff 3y ago
  Are you inclined to believe that a pallet is worth less than £1.18? I’m not an expert in the pallet supply chain, but that seems extraordinarily low to me.
  - BitPirate 3y ago
    If they are broken, why not? You can't use them to transport goods safely and they contain nails so people will hesitate to put them in a wood burner.
  - ljf 3y ago
    Near me (East of England) there seems to be no end of offers of free pallets from building and manufacturing trades - posts on local groups or adverts for as many pallets as you can take away. I was tempted to get some for a project, but the time to break them down put me off.
    - bombcar 3y ago
      Usable pallets are quite valuable in the right place. Broken pallets or ones in the wrong place are scrap.

Simon_O_Rourke 3y ago

Attempts to normalize this as some kind of folksy traditional community bonfire thing requires such levels of misdirection and sleight of a hand that they'd be better off doing magic shows in Vegas. These kinds of events are purely and simply displays of racist and sectarian hate - no different from burning crosses in Alabama. The effigies of the Pope are the more friendly of the things burned on these bonfires, the less palatable include Irish and Basque flags for whatever reason, slogans exhorting genocide, and even pictures of previous sectarian murder victims [1][2]. It's a thoroughly vile event that happens each year, wrapped up in some false sense of "culture". [1] - https://www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/belfast-news/sectarian-bonfires-condemned-after-flags-24470773 https://www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/belfast-news/sectarian-bo... [2] - https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/police-treating-material-on-rathcoole-bonfire-as-hate-crime/a848728777.html https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/pol...

fdhfdjkfhdkj 3y ago
[dead]

AnnikaL 3y ago

This is from 2021.

dang 3y ago
Added. Thanks!

Dylan1312 3y ago

For anyone interested in learning more, VICE did a decent documentary back in 2012 where they visit Belfast and speak to some of the people involved at a different bonfire site. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nzDuiv3U8o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nzDuiv3U8o

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

aaron695 3y ago

[dead]

azubinski 3y ago

It’s even a little pity that this wild senselessness was so rushed. After all, it was possible to time such a large symbolic burning of logistics for the Elbakyan's EFF award. Because The Absurdity must be brought to the limit.