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The immediate jump to food preferences in this thread is strange, it's very evident that changing diet, modes of transport and a plethora of other things we ar

The immediate jump to food preferences in this thread is strange, it's very evident that changing diet, modes of transport and a plethora of other things we argue about doing is a rounding error compared to simply having one less child, overpopulation is the root cause of all this yet an incredibly taboo issue to discuss. https://i.cbc.ca/1.4204289.1499983814!/fileImage/httpImage/emissions-choices.jpg https://i.cbc.ca/1.4204289.1499983814!/fileImage/httpImage/e... Countries should work towards stabilising their populations first otherwise it's all for naught.

satvikpendem 3y ago
This is already happening naturally without any sort of societal intervention. Who knew that people simply want to have fewer kids because life is better without them?
myshpa 3y ago
> Countries should work towards stabilising their populations first The population growth is already starting to decline; for example, Europe is already experiencing a decline, the population growth in the US has recently flatlined. https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2021/12/us-population-grew-in-2021-slowest-rate-since-founding-of-the-nation.html https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2021/12/us-population... U.S. Population Grew 0.1% in 2021, Slowest Rate Since Founding of the Nation https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8393076/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8393076/ Major Trends in Population Growth Around the World https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2019/06/17/worlds-population-is-projected-to-nearly-stop-growing-by-the-end-of-the-century/ https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2019/06/17/worlds-po... World’s population is projected to nearly stop growing by the end of the century > overpopulation is the root cause of all this yet an incredibly taboo issue to discuss The root cause is overshoot. Climate change, resource depletion, deforestation, loss of biodiversity, pollution, overpopulation, soil erosion, and overfishing are all but symptoms of ecological overshoot. https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/917471 https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/917471 Feeding 10 billion people by 2050 within planetary limits may be achievable on plant-based diets. https://www.mdpi.com/2071-1050/14/21/14449 https://www.mdpi.com/2071-1050/14/21/14449 How Compatible Are Western European Dietary Patterns to Climate Targets? Accounting for Uncertainty of Life Cycle Assessments by Applying a Probabilistic Approach “Without concerted action, we found that the environmental impacts of the food system could increase by 50-90% by 2050 as a result of population growth and the rise of diets high in fats, sugars and meat,” he continued. “In that case, all planetary boundaries related to food production would be surpassed, some of them by more than twofold.” https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26231772/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26231772/ The consumption of animal-sourced food products by humans is one of the most powerful negative forces affecting the conservation of terrestrial ecosystems and biological diversity. A little math might help. environmental_impact = number_of_individuals * mean_individual_consumption We can either choose how to lower mean_individual_consumption, or wait for nature to reduce number_of_individuals forcibly. One way is better than the other.
mcpackieh 3y ago
Well it was the guy I responded to who brought up veganisim as a solution in his top level post, but okay let's talk overpopulation. Axolotl have only ever been known to live in a few lakes which have been almost entirely obliterated by Mexico City, home to 10 million people (21 million if you count the whole metro area!) What exactly do you propose? Even if the population replacement rate in Mexico City were brought below 1, how many years would it take to depopulate the city? Short of forcing people out of the city at gunpoint (and to where, exactly?) how could you actually get the city depopulated in a reasonable amount of time to save the wild axolotl who might have a few years left at most? And how would this undo the habitat destruction which already occurred? How would you remove the structure of the city and restore the environment which it replaced decades+ ago? Urbanization is often touted as the solution to habitat loss; concentrate people in high density urban areas to preserve the environment in the rest of the world. But in the case of Axolotl, they don't care for the rest of the world. They care about that specific piece of land that is under one of the largest metro areas in the world.
- tweetle_beetle 3y ago
  > And how would this undo the habitat destruction which already occurred? How would you remove the structure of the city and restore the environment which it replaced decades+ ago? Not an expert by any means, but, as I understand it, Lake Texcoco National Park[1] is a fairly radical project (given the tendencies of urban politics) to move towards answering those questions. > The main objective of this project is to reclaim the site to a green infrastructure in the valley of Mexico City. Rather than returning the area of an intact ecosystem from before the Spanish colonization, the key is to create a complete balance between infrastructure and nature. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Texcoco_Ecological_Park https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Texcoco_Ecological_Park

satvikpendem 3y ago

This is already happening naturally without any sort of societal intervention. Who knew that people simply want to have fewer kids because life is better without them?

myshpa 3y ago

> Countries should work towards stabilising their populations first The population growth is already starting to decline; for example, Europe is already experiencing a decline, the population growth in the US has recently flatlined. https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2021/12/us-population-grew-in-2021-slowest-rate-since-founding-of-the-nation.html https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2021/12/us-population... U.S. Population Grew 0.1% in 2021, Slowest Rate Since Founding of the Nation https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8393076/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8393076/ Major Trends in Population Growth Around the World https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2019/06/17/worlds-population-is-projected-to-nearly-stop-growing-by-the-end-of-the-century/ https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2019/06/17/worlds-po... World’s population is projected to nearly stop growing by the end of the century > overpopulation is the root cause of all this yet an incredibly taboo issue to discuss The root cause is overshoot. Climate change, resource depletion, deforestation, loss of biodiversity, pollution, overpopulation, soil erosion, and overfishing are all but symptoms of ecological overshoot. https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/917471 https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/917471 Feeding 10 billion people by 2050 within planetary limits may be achievable on plant-based diets. https://www.mdpi.com/2071-1050/14/21/14449 https://www.mdpi.com/2071-1050/14/21/14449 How Compatible Are Western European Dietary Patterns to Climate Targets? Accounting for Uncertainty of Life Cycle Assessments by Applying a Probabilistic Approach “Without concerted action, we found that the environmental impacts of the food system could increase by 50-90% by 2050 as a result of population growth and the rise of diets high in fats, sugars and meat,” he continued. “In that case, all planetary boundaries related to food production would be surpassed, some of them by more than twofold.” https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26231772/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26231772/ The consumption of animal-sourced food products by humans is one of the most powerful negative forces affecting the conservation of terrestrial ecosystems and biological diversity. A little math might help. environmental_impact = number_of_individuals * mean_individual_consumption We can either choose how to lower mean_individual_consumption, or wait for nature to reduce number_of_individuals forcibly. One way is better than the other.

mcpackieh 3y ago

Well it was the guy I responded to who brought up veganisim as a solution in his top level post, but okay let's talk overpopulation. Axolotl have only ever been known to live in a few lakes which have been almost entirely obliterated by Mexico City, home to 10 million people (21 million if you count the whole metro area!) What exactly do you propose? Even if the population replacement rate in Mexico City were brought below 1, how many years would it take to depopulate the city? Short of forcing people out of the city at gunpoint (and to where, exactly?) how could you actually get the city depopulated in a reasonable amount of time to save the wild axolotl who might have a few years left at most? And how would this undo the habitat destruction which already occurred? How would you remove the structure of the city and restore the environment which it replaced decades+ ago? Urbanization is often touted as the solution to habitat loss; concentrate people in high density urban areas to preserve the environment in the rest of the world. But in the case of Axolotl, they don't care for the rest of the world. They care about that specific piece of land that is under one of the largest metro areas in the world.

tweetle_beetle 3y ago
> And how would this undo the habitat destruction which already occurred? How would you remove the structure of the city and restore the environment which it replaced decades+ ago? Not an expert by any means, but, as I understand it, Lake Texcoco National Park[1] is a fairly radical project (given the tendencies of urban politics) to move towards answering those questions. > The main objective of this project is to reclaim the site to a green infrastructure in the valley of Mexico City. Rather than returning the area of an intact ecosystem from before the Spanish colonization, the key is to create a complete balance between infrastructure and nature. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Texcoco_Ecological_Park https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Texcoco_Ecological_Park