4 ms·

This articulates really well all the things I don't like about Spotify. I've always been someone that reads liner notes and researches a band I like and I real

by 4oo4 3y ago

This articulates really well all the things I don't like about Spotify. I've always been someone that reads liner notes and researches a band I like and I really hate when I hear a cool song and want to listen to the rest of the album or more from the same band but Spotify forces me into some bland anonymous algorithmic playlist. I'm happy for the algorithm to show me things but I want to actually know what I'm listening to and listen to a whole album at a time. What's even more frustrating is that Plexamp is stealing all of Spotify's design cues and has similar algorithmic playlist creation. I do get more control over sticking with the same band but it doesn't always respect this setting and it still tries to give me anonymous playlists I didn't ask for. It is my library and I have a decent familiarity with what's in it, but I use Plexamp specifically to avoid all the things I hate with Spotify instead of just a private Spotify. I never thought about Spotify's search feature being shitty on purpose but it makes perfect sense. Despite all this and how terribly it treats artists I still pay for premium because of peer pressure, so I can share Spotify links with friends and play Music League. Every time I've tried to explain my reasons for barely using Spotify to them I always sound like an entitled crazy person. I just hope something better replaces it in the near future, since they will never be profitable, but I'm not optimistic.

noduerme 3y ago
I don't think it's "entitled" at all to expect these platforms to deliver the experience they say they're selling. Getting deeper into an artist's work is and always will be a fundamental aspect of appreciating any kind of music. Insofar as that goes against their business model, they're just a new form of "muzak". I refuse to subscribe to any of them. I still find new music by listening to college radio. I'll buy CDs or records or download MP3s, but I won't let anyone control my collection. Maybe people who came of age in the streaming world don't even know what they're missing, which is sad. But on the other hand, the vast majority of people have never really cared about music. That's why the top 40 has pretty much always been milquetoast trash, all the way back.
wodenokoto 3y ago
The original A[[;e music was very much centered around artist and particularly albums. And people hated it. Now it's just bland, but at least it let's you browse to an album from the current song, and it does have a little blurb for most artists.
jemmyw 3y ago
I don't understand what you mean, I use Spotify all the time and jump from the discover list to the artist page and then go through their albums all the time. You can go direct from song to album too.
- bennyg 3y ago
  Was going to reply the same thing. Spotify is so much. Enter when you think of it as a tool to play music. Sometimes diving into the algorithm can be rewarding, and sometimes you want to break free. I don’t intend this to sound shilling, but I have no problem using Spotify in both ways tbh.
- 4oo4 3y ago
  You can if you are constantly controlling what comes up next, but is there a way to automatically stay listening to an artist after an album ends? What I'm talking about is that I put on a certain album on Spotify, and as soon as that ends it immediately goes to the algorithmic anonymous playlist, if you have the Autoplay setting on. It really comes down to that I'm against the norm in that I prefer albums as opposed to individual tracks like the vast majority of Spotify listeners do, and the effect of having randomized playlist hurts being able to know what artist you're listening to at any given moment unless you're constantly watching the tracks change (which probably no one does). I want an algorithm that can slow down slightly and recommend me a series of albums so I can get a good sampling of similar artists, but also have enough time to see who I'm listening to and listen to the work as the artist intended, instead of just a random smattering of faceless "content".
  - DropInIn 3y ago
    Wait, so paying for premium means having the same shitty uncontrollable "you'll listen to what we choose and like it" experience as free, just without the perioidic ads? If so, I couldn't be happier I've never paid for it.
    - hcolors 3y ago
      No, you can choose to play whatever you want in any order. It is trivial to queue up multiple albums. When whatever you have queued ends, Spotify then will play 'radio' based on the album that just finished if autoplay is on. The parent commenter seemingly would just like more control over how the radio function works, suggesting something like an album radio. Queueing up multiple albums from e.g. 'discover' fills the role pretty well.
zizee 3y ago
Is it Spotify treating artists badly? Or is it the labels? Is "terribly treats artists" shorthand for "doesn't pay them a fair amount", or are they doing other nasty stuff? I was under the impression that the labels suck all the money out of Spotify, not leaving much for independents. Spotify doesn't really have the ability to do much else without dissolving.
- 4oo4 3y ago
  Yes, they are. This is a summary some of the points of a chapter from Cory Doctrow's book Chokepoint Capitalism, which lays this out in way better detail than the blog post (highly recommended read). The labels are more culpable (and have been terrible way before streaming) and Spotify is at their mercy for a lot of things, buy they also hurt artists on their own. There is also the fact that at least for a time the labels owned a decent stake in Spotify and other streaming services, so to a certain degree, financially speaking, they are one and the same. Part of the bland algorithmic playlists diversion strategy is being able to control what content people are listening to via playlists to be able to sell listener data ("real time mood and activity data") to advertisers, and Spotify being able to strengthen its position by acting as a gatekeeper between artists and listeners. Spotify also uses placement on playlists as a form of payola, to punish even very well-known artists such as Katy Perry that give exclusive releases (even temporary ones) to rival streaming services and hold leverage over labels. When people listen to playlists they'll also be listening to more music, which also helps juice their user count/activity numbers for investors. When people don't care what artist they're listening to and just want playlists, they become more loyal to Spotify's algorithms than any particular artist. A lot of the most successful playlist "artists" come from music content mills (similar to the way advertisers can commission a knockoff song when they can't license an original) that churn out large amounts of music to game the algorithms, and Spotify then pays them a lower royalty rate than they do major labels and artificially promotes it to increase its margins. They can then use that leverage to force actual artists to accept lower royalty rates to get access to the same promotion. Spotify is definitely at the labels' mercy, but its "success" (if you can define being unprofitable but monopolizing a market as that) directly comes at the expense of artists. It can't negotiate better rates with labels but it does have the ability to stop engaging in payola and prioritizing fake content mill playlist "artists" over real artists. There's also the fact that royalty payments are zero sum game where a huge artist can reduce payments to smaller ones. In fact, it's a huge problem on Spotify that people upload fake "music" (faker than the content mill playlist artists) that they then stream with phone farms and steal money from real artists via fraud. Spotify is well aware but don't really care. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whQ8UBoz-To https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whQ8UBoz-To

by 4oo4 3y ago

noduerme 3y ago

I don't think it's "entitled" at all to expect these platforms to deliver the experience they say they're selling. Getting deeper into an artist's work is and always will be a fundamental aspect of appreciating any kind of music. Insofar as that goes against their business model, they're just a new form of "muzak". I refuse to subscribe to any of them. I still find new music by listening to college radio. I'll buy CDs or records or download MP3s, but I won't let anyone control my collection. Maybe people who came of age in the streaming world don't even know what they're missing, which is sad. But on the other hand, the vast majority of people have never really cared about music. That's why the top 40 has pretty much always been milquetoast trash, all the way back.

wodenokoto 3y ago

The original A[[;e music was very much centered around artist and particularly albums. And people hated it. Now it's just bland, but at least it let's you browse to an album from the current song, and it does have a little blurb for most artists.

jemmyw 3y ago

I don't understand what you mean, I use Spotify all the time and jump from the discover list to the artist page and then go through their albums all the time. You can go direct from song to album too.

bennyg 3y ago
Was going to reply the same thing. Spotify is so much. Enter when you think of it as a tool to play music. Sometimes diving into the algorithm can be rewarding, and sometimes you want to break free. I don’t intend this to sound shilling, but I have no problem using Spotify in both ways tbh.
4oo4 3y ago
You can if you are constantly controlling what comes up next, but is there a way to automatically stay listening to an artist after an album ends? What I'm talking about is that I put on a certain album on Spotify, and as soon as that ends it immediately goes to the algorithmic anonymous playlist, if you have the Autoplay setting on. It really comes down to that I'm against the norm in that I prefer albums as opposed to individual tracks like the vast majority of Spotify listeners do, and the effect of having randomized playlist hurts being able to know what artist you're listening to at any given moment unless you're constantly watching the tracks change (which probably no one does). I want an algorithm that can slow down slightly and recommend me a series of albums so I can get a good sampling of similar artists, but also have enough time to see who I'm listening to and listen to the work as the artist intended, instead of just a random smattering of faceless "content".
- DropInIn 3y ago
  Wait, so paying for premium means having the same shitty uncontrollable "you'll listen to what we choose and like it" experience as free, just without the perioidic ads? If so, I couldn't be happier I've never paid for it.
  - hcolors 3y ago
    No, you can choose to play whatever you want in any order. It is trivial to queue up multiple albums. When whatever you have queued ends, Spotify then will play 'radio' based on the album that just finished if autoplay is on. The parent commenter seemingly would just like more control over how the radio function works, suggesting something like an album radio. Queueing up multiple albums from e.g. 'discover' fills the role pretty well.

zizee 3y ago

Is it Spotify treating artists badly? Or is it the labels? Is "terribly treats artists" shorthand for "doesn't pay them a fair amount", or are they doing other nasty stuff? I was under the impression that the labels suck all the money out of Spotify, not leaving much for independents. Spotify doesn't really have the ability to do much else without dissolving.

4oo4 3y ago
Yes, they are. This is a summary some of the points of a chapter from Cory Doctrow's book Chokepoint Capitalism, which lays this out in way better detail than the blog post (highly recommended read). The labels are more culpable (and have been terrible way before streaming) and Spotify is at their mercy for a lot of things, buy they also hurt artists on their own. There is also the fact that at least for a time the labels owned a decent stake in Spotify and other streaming services, so to a certain degree, financially speaking, they are one and the same. Part of the bland algorithmic playlists diversion strategy is being able to control what content people are listening to via playlists to be able to sell listener data ("real time mood and activity data") to advertisers, and Spotify being able to strengthen its position by acting as a gatekeeper between artists and listeners. Spotify also uses placement on playlists as a form of payola, to punish even very well-known artists such as Katy Perry that give exclusive releases (even temporary ones) to rival streaming services and hold leverage over labels. When people listen to playlists they'll also be listening to more music, which also helps juice their user count/activity numbers for investors. When people don't care what artist they're listening to and just want playlists, they become more loyal to Spotify's algorithms than any particular artist. A lot of the most successful playlist "artists" come from music content mills (similar to the way advertisers can commission a knockoff song when they can't license an original) that churn out large amounts of music to game the algorithms, and Spotify then pays them a lower royalty rate than they do major labels and artificially promotes it to increase its margins. They can then use that leverage to force actual artists to accept lower royalty rates to get access to the same promotion. Spotify is definitely at the labels' mercy, but its "success" (if you can define being unprofitable but monopolizing a market as that) directly comes at the expense of artists. It can't negotiate better rates with labels but it does have the ability to stop engaging in payola and prioritizing fake content mill playlist "artists" over real artists. There's also the fact that royalty payments are zero sum game where a huge artist can reduce payments to smaller ones. In fact, it's a huge problem on Spotify that people upload fake "music" (faker than the content mill playlist artists) that they then stream with phone farms and steal money from real artists via fraud. Spotify is well aware but don't really care. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whQ8UBoz-To https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whQ8UBoz-To