5 ms·

I kept making this point as well as the other arguments above (and others did too) in the Core Dev discussion group. Unfortuately to no avail. To be sure I am n

I kept making this point as well as the other arguments above (and others did too) in the Core Dev discussion group. Unfortuately to no avail. To be sure I am not a core dev.

matsemann 3y ago
Well I don't agree that just because one needs >1 servers, no-gil is suddenly useless. Still lots of complexity and awkwardness that can be avoided if you can do threading instead of processes. Like Promotheus scraping from a non-webserver python app is a pita, as you need a new process and lots of communication, vs just plug and play as in other languages. Or just the insane resource usage. Had a java app serving multiple orders of magnitude more customers running on a few containers. Our current python app needs multiple deployments with different entry points, and about 15x the amount of containers.
- slt2021 3y ago
  It is not fair to compare CPython (which is on purpose not optimized, only a reference implementation of interpretable scripting language without any focus on performance) to OpenJDK - an arguably state of the art compiled bytecode VM with JIT and AOT compilers available, with decades and many $millions poured into runtime/JIT/GC/etc research and optimization
  - lozenge 3y ago
    "on purpose not optimized, only a reference implementation of interpretable scripting language without any focus on performance" That policy is over. As the last years have shown, no alternative implementation can get off the ground due to C extensions and compatibility concerns, and CPython is now relied on for many large applications. It no longer makes sense to prioritise a simple implementation over performance.
  - matsemann 3y ago
    Why is it not fair? I need to choose a tool, how it came to be is irrelevant for me.
fred123 3y ago
Do you think Meta (Instagram) are pushing GIL removal and Cinder for no reason? They clearly have that scale and still benefit from faster single machine performance
- miraculixx 3y ago
  Yes they will benefit from this. Unfortunately most everyone else will suffer.

I kept making this point as well as the other arguments above (and others did too) in the Core Dev discussion group. Unfortuately to no avail. To be sure I am not a core dev.

matsemann 3y ago

Well I don't agree that just because one needs >1 servers, no-gil is suddenly useless. Still lots of complexity and awkwardness that can be avoided if you can do threading instead of processes. Like Promotheus scraping from a non-webserver python app is a pita, as you need a new process and lots of communication, vs just plug and play as in other languages. Or just the insane resource usage. Had a java app serving multiple orders of magnitude more customers running on a few containers. Our current python app needs multiple deployments with different entry points, and about 15x the amount of containers.

slt2021 3y ago
It is not fair to compare CPython (which is on purpose not optimized, only a reference implementation of interpretable scripting language without any focus on performance) to OpenJDK - an arguably state of the art compiled bytecode VM with JIT and AOT compilers available, with decades and many $millions poured into runtime/JIT/GC/etc research and optimization
- lozenge 3y ago
  "on purpose not optimized, only a reference implementation of interpretable scripting language without any focus on performance" That policy is over. As the last years have shown, no alternative implementation can get off the ground due to C extensions and compatibility concerns, and CPython is now relied on for many large applications. It no longer makes sense to prioritise a simple implementation over performance.
- matsemann 3y ago
  Why is it not fair? I need to choose a tool, how it came to be is irrelevant for me.

fred123 3y ago

Do you think Meta (Instagram) are pushing GIL removal and Cinder for no reason? They clearly have that scale and still benefit from faster single machine performance

miraculixx 3y ago
Yes they will benefit from this. Unfortunately most everyone else will suffer.