2 ms·

I know what you mean, yet another tragedy of the commons. In the UK at least they are less common, I think it's partly a cultural thing, but I suspect road siz

by tomxor 3y ago

I know what you mean, yet another tragedy of the commons. In the UK at least they are less common, I think it's partly a cultural thing, but I suspect road size and layout is also a significant factor, which negatively affects the practicality of actually driving and parking a big SUV over here. I'm pretty sure that's why they will always remain uncommon, and haven't kicked off a chain reaction like in the US. I think that's the only way you can prevent this kind of arms race in a society, by designing aspects into the system that reduce socially undesirable properties by making those same properties less desirable to the individual, intrinsically - i.e I don't want an SUV, because it's going to be so damn annoying to drive and park in so many places (note how that affects all individuals regardless of wealth). The same works with speed, using intrinsic speed limitations due to road size and layout instead of extrinsic punishment which doesn't effectively prevent injury or death. If the appropriate speed is 30mph, don't build a 6 lane style highway and be surprised when people find it hard to stay under 80. I think so many of the societal issues caused by cars can be all but eliminated through road design.

philjw 3y ago
It's slowly getting to Europe though. Every second car being sold in Germany nowadays is an SUV, there is barely anything affordable below the 15k EUR mark - most of them are probably on a lease. I'm just wondering, what's going to be next... Tanks again? Best example I guess is Ford who discontinued its Ford Ka and Fiesta because "they wanted to focus on EVs" - on the other hand they introduced the F150 to Germany. Not the most honest move. I'd argue 80% of customers are sheeple following whatever is advertised on TV / parked in the neighbours driveway. I used to enjoy cars but with the climate crisis and just by how automotive attempts to innovate these days, I cancelled this entire industry. Gonna get a Bullitt Cargobike soon
fnimick 3y ago
Yup. The problem in the US as a recent study pointed out is that the private benefit of owning an SUV is greater than the public benefit - basically, it's shifting cost and the risk from the person to society at large. I'm not sure how you fix it, considering that pretty much every proposal to narrow a road, add a bike lane, add a bus lane, increase registration fees etc around here is treated like you're trying to bring back Hitler. It's so frustrating.
- tomxor 3y ago
  Yeah, it's a strange thing for so many people in the right positions to have such a high degree of confidence in the problem and solution, have studies to back it up, and yet be essentially powerless in the face of cultural inertia and the weight of pre-existing infrastructure... I've no idea how anyone can make progress in that scenario. I guess some things can only change extremely slowly.

by tomxor 3y ago

philjw 3y ago

It's slowly getting to Europe though. Every second car being sold in Germany nowadays is an SUV, there is barely anything affordable below the 15k EUR mark - most of them are probably on a lease. I'm just wondering, what's going to be next... Tanks again? Best example I guess is Ford who discontinued its Ford Ka and Fiesta because "they wanted to focus on EVs" - on the other hand they introduced the F150 to Germany. Not the most honest move. I'd argue 80% of customers are sheeple following whatever is advertised on TV / parked in the neighbours driveway. I used to enjoy cars but with the climate crisis and just by how automotive attempts to innovate these days, I cancelled this entire industry. Gonna get a Bullitt Cargobike soon

fnimick 3y ago

Yup. The problem in the US as a recent study pointed out is that the private benefit of owning an SUV is greater than the public benefit - basically, it's shifting cost and the risk from the person to society at large. I'm not sure how you fix it, considering that pretty much every proposal to narrow a road, add a bike lane, add a bus lane, increase registration fees etc around here is treated like you're trying to bring back Hitler. It's so frustrating.

tomxor 3y ago
Yeah, it's a strange thing for so many people in the right positions to have such a high degree of confidence in the problem and solution, have studies to back it up, and yet be essentially powerless in the face of cultural inertia and the weight of pre-existing infrastructure... I've no idea how anyone can make progress in that scenario. I guess some things can only change extremely slowly.